Looking for suggestions-PR hunting

OK, for starters....my backsquat PR is 300 pounds. Exactly.  As of right now, I pushed up a 285 pound backsquat today at the end of about a 28-motion sequence  and that went just fine.     This year I'd like a little bit more....call it 315 or 325. I don't actually have a deadlift PR because I haven't done it that much, but I'm treating 300 as my virtual PR.  The goal, as always is to throw far....not lift weight.  HOWEVER, I have come to understand that if I get stronger, it's pretty likely that I'll throw farther.

Myles is loving this, right now...

OK, so far this off-season I've followed a   5-day rotation, every other day....so I lift M-W-F.  Day 1 is back squat, Day 2 is  incline bench,   Day 3 is core,  Day 4 is deadlift,  Day 5 is push press, and then I start over. There's other stuff in there of course, but that's the basics.

core 1, 2 ,3  refer to an array of ab, lower back and core exercises I do. Examples are lateral pulls, back extensions, core crushers with the Oly bar, situps, hanging leg lifts, planks, russian twists, landmines and stuff like that. I just do whatever seems good on the day.

I want to lift "big"...well, big for me, weights until the first week, maybe the second week in February. After that, until I start throwing in Mid-March, I want to lift "fast"...lots of hang cleans, dumbell snatches, fast squats, incline db's where I almost throw the weights, "modified Litvi sprints", some box jumps and so on.  I'll probably do some fast Zercher squats in there as well, and a crossfit thing, Sumo Deadlift High Pulls.    So that will be 6 weeks of "FAST" before the throwing season starts.

OK, that's my plan.  NOW, here's my question....take a look at my January plan, here and tell me if you think this makes sense.....Comments  are welcome, and I guarantee I will think about every single one of them, but I DON'T guarantee that I'll take everybodys advice. One thing I've learned from this well-meaning board of meatheads is that everybody has an opinion, a whole lot of them are really good, and if I tried to do what everybody said, I'd never have time to sleep, eat, drink or piss.

So have at it, tell me what you think, suggest away and thanks, ahead of time.

You are on the right track. Fast Fast Fast. And I do not mean push away from the table. I started training for accelleration last summer and it seems to be working. I don't worry about the poundage as much as the load. A few controlled warm up sets and then I blast every rep like I'm trying to launch the weight. I used to hate machine workouts but they make this safer. Start the rep from the bottomed out position and accellerate through the motion, and follow through at the end. The swinging arc "hammer strength" type appartuses(?) are good for this since you can release the lever at full extension and catch it on it's return arc. These are not slow controlled reps. people will look at you like you are crazy. Body builders will tell you your form is all wrong. I do incline bench, flat cable pulls ( for caber) , low cable rotational pulls, short deadlifts, leg presses, even curls, all with the idea speeding up the load throughout the entire motion and beyond. I will increase or decrease the weight depending on how my body feels but always try to feel like you are accelerating. I also like doing winds with a hammer and weighted hula hoop. go one direction and accelerate to full speed and then stop reverse and go the other way. Great for rotational speed. I look to mimic movements or parts of movements that we use when throwing. Of course throwing is also a good training tool, but this routine gives me something for the gym where I can change the load. It would be great to have throwing implements that had infinite adjustability so I could do the same thing when I practice. Give this a try and go for smooth acceleration rather than snappy lifts, easier on the joints. 

I agree with Craig.  There is no reason to waste another week of training on light weight stuff.  I would cut a week or two and do a 4 week lift one week deload split.

This is all good stuff, and thank you....  I use only one machine, regularly, and that's the seated fly machine. A search on YouTube suggests that these things are sometimes called "Pec Decks".   I've hurt myself pretty good doing flies with dumbells in the past and I do this because I think it's safer.  However, I want to work the muscles in that way, so....thus the machine.  The other machine I occasionally use is what I call in my log the "stupid curl machine". It's stupid. I know it. But if the benches are all taken, and the machine is open I jump on it.  I know that curls don't help diddly with throwing, I do them to keep the attachment of bicep to shoulder strong so I don't pop that sucker doing sheaf.  Recently I've been skipping the stupid machine and just doing them with one of those bent curl bars....

...of course, ALWAYS in the squat rack. You know. To impress the babez.

Matt...you're not the first guy to tell me to lose the "core day"...Jake has suggested the same thing. OK...I hear you.  I think I'll change that day to mix up a couple of core things with some high pulls and dumbell snatches, just so I am moving fast at least during part of one workout.   I hate to give up my much-loved landmines and core crushers and "hammer wind ab crushers"!  

BTW, I am not throwing right now. Matt, I'm 54 years old. I can't throw two days and lift three. I can't do it, or I will get hurt.  Basically I can throw or lift 3 days a week.  Last season, during May I did a few weeks of lifting 1x and throwing 3x and it was OK, but man did I get burned out, mid-season.  I could probably do another workout day...so 4x a week if it was something like showshoeing or bicycling, but weights or throws?  Nah.     I will probably throw some between Christmas and New Years....some shot put and discus. I will also do some track meets in January for fun, so I'll throw a bit so's I don't embarrass myself.  I miss discus.

Bar dips and pull-ups....gawd, I hate 'em because I suck at 'em... but I can do that, Matt. 

Bench rows... like this Craig...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AqUQExbxhU
...LOL...except that I'm working a lot harder than the anatomical model!  I've been thinking that I might mix it up by stopping these and doing rack pulls.  Variety is good.  Whatcha' think?

I hear what Matt and Craig are saying about cutting the light weight week in January....yeah I've been doing that for 6 weeks, maybe it's time to start pushing it.  OK, you're on. I'll revise the plan. I'm actually heading that way right now, already, by squatting the 285 yesterday.  Time to ramp it up, a bit sooner.  I also got to thinking last night that I might want a deload week in there somewhere.  So if I start the "Big Stuff" a little bit earlier, I can get in a deload week, maybe week 3 in January. Then come back for a big week, last week in January and go for the PR's first week in Feb.

Matt, I have some stenosis in my lower back, pinches the L4 nerve that results in ugly sensations in my feet, and sometimes numbness in my nuts.  Good Mornings really aggravate that, I took myself out of the Pleasanton Games two years ago by doing a couple of weeks of Good Mornings before the Games that year.  I had NO strength in my quads.  It was embarrassing, how awful I threw that year.   No can do 'em..  Hell, the reason I haven't done deadlifts until recently is out of concern for my lower back.

I actually like Zerchers.  Front squats hurt. They just do,  my chest and elbows hate them and not in a good way.  Yet on the rare occasion I do a few, I can feel the difference in how they work my butt and core.  How to get that "difference" without  actually doing front squats?  I tried Zerchers. No pain, but works the muscles differently.  So while I would LIKE to do more of them, because there are only so many days in the week, they have to be relegated to "sometimes" rather than a main staple of the workout.

Andrew, I WISH I could showshoe out here. Seriously..... snowshoeing rocks.

OK, anybody else that wants to chime in, don't be shy!


Edited by Alan H - 12/15/11 at 7:44am

Alan H wrote: BTW, I am not throwing right now. Matt, I'm 54 years old. I can't throw two days and lift three. I can't do it, or I will get hurt.  Basically I can throw or lift 3 days a week.  Last season, during May I did a few weeks of lifting 1x and throwing 3x and it was OK, but man did I get burned out, mid-season.  I could probably do another workout day...so 4x a week if it was something like showshoeing or bicycling, but weights or throws?  Nah.     I will probably throw some between Christmas and New Years....some shot put and discus. I will also do some track meets in January for fun, so I'll throw a bit so's I don't embarrass myself.  I miss discus. Bar dips and pull-ups....gawd, I hate 'em because I suck at 'em... but I can do that, Matt.

Alan I agree with  you with planning your season and training for you.  I do suggest throwing x1 a week during off season just so the movements stay smooth as well as getting easy reps in.    You will be surprised the difference it will make come time to focus and all of the ground work is laid.

alan.

Agree w Mike you have come so far, w your mind and thoughts.  All these people giving advice are much younger, they are very very good lifters and throwers, but they don't know the age component.  What I see in the problem w your schedule is the fact you squat on Monday and then pull on Friday.  As you get older obv it takes longer to recover, and your back is not going to be fresh to squat on Monday after you pounded it Friday.  I just don't see pounding the lower back twice a week for a guy over 50.  I guess this depends on the intensity.  But if your going to push it, and I mean as hard as you can and want to be as strong as you can, then I think you might have to look at putting the squat and dead into one day, or even alternating every other Monday with them.  And the deload week is another important thing to look at.  But again, this is determined by how hard your training.  I love to train, but I have to stop and rest or I make no progress.      Youve come a long way baby.  

And I also agree with Myles, there are several times where I have to tell him to take a break/deload.  Sometimes it's hard to see when you're in the mix and you don't realize what you need.  

Read until the mention of pec deck, then skimmed, so if already addressed, forgive me.

C. Smith wrote: As for the machines/free weights, it's not just a matter of getting bigger and stronger.  It's a matter of increased use of stabilizers, balance, not being stuck in one plane that might not be right for you, etc...

C. Smith wrote: We're not necessarily disagreeing on that Jake, nor did I say it wouldn't be helpful.  Just something that many of us that live where it gets cold have always done.  It's not that uncommon, especially in recent history. As for throwing to throwing farther, you know I agree with that.  I don't mind the train 1-2x and throw 1-2x, but the train 3x and throw 2-3x is just too much imo.

omg, I think I just pee'd a little.

Wow, this is cool!!!

Jake, i'll be throwing shot and discus in January/February.  See, I have this boat. It's a little boat, and it's been sitting out in the rain and sun for a year, in my front yard. I haven't finished it. Why?  Because I've been throwing and lifting!  The guys on the wooden boat forum are giving me the eye. So I swore that I wouldn't throw again until I launched the boat.  Launch Day is Jan. 2nd!   So after that....back in the shot and discus ring, probably 1 day a week practice and then an low-key track meet on Saturdays, and of course, lifting.

No worries about the age thing. It is what it is.  I look at it this way.

I started this when I was 49.  Three months later I turned 50.  I'm so far ahead of where I was when I started that it's silly. I'm having fun. I hang out with big dudes who throw. I am getting better. My PR count slowed down last year,  I'm starting to  get to the point where skill and strength improvement are levelling off, but I bet I'm going to notch one or two PR's this year, too.  Nothing wrong with that!   Hell, I'm ranked #11 in my age group in North America.  I'm gonna go to the MWC this year.  I got up on the podium at Pleasanton last year.  There are some big strong dudes up on that podium and *I* was up there, getting my little plaque, too.    I must be doing something right!  So while I wish the body would do what a 28 year old can do, ...well....

Funny thing. I'm the oldest guy in my department. When the 25 gallon tanks of pressurized liquid nitrogen come in (they weigh about 200 pounds) who do they have come in to push 'em around and swap out the old one?   ME.  I walk around town, or around the Games and I see LOTS of 50-something year old guys. Are THEY throwing?  Are THEY on the action side of the fence?  Can THEY squat 300 pounds?  Can THEY chuck a 28 pound weight 48-49 feet?     Nope.  

But I am, I can, and I do.

Thanks for the positive comments, everybody....  There will be bar dips and pullups incorporated into this months workout, and probably beyond.  I will suck at them for starters, but I will get better.  I will keep my landmines, hammer wind ab crushers and core crushers, because I like them and I think they help,  but I will mix them up with high pulls and dumbell snatches, even though I was going to wait on those.  So my "core day" will change and will become a mix of core and fast movements.

I  will listen to dl-buffy and  move my pec deck limit pin back up one notch so that I'm not pulling from so far back and at such a tough angle.  I will try to move the pec deck weights a little faster,  keep my back on the pad, my arms pretty straight,  and not worry so much about how "big" the number is on the stack.   After all, the goal is to pull a 28 or 42 pound weight FAST, right?  So instead of 4 x 4 and grinding it out and stressing my shoulders... maybe 6 x 3 or even 6 x 4 at lower weight, quicker is the ticket, here.

I am going to listen to Myles and Sean and  listen to my lower back the first week I try this. if I'm tight or tired, and not ready to push it in the DL's  then maybe I need to spread things out a bit. I was going to move from a 5-day series to a 3-day, but that brings the  squats and dls's close together. I might need another couple days in there....maybe a 4-day series will get me there better and safer.  Let's see what my lower back says.

Silverback wrote: World champion writes you a routine, my advice is to follow it.

Hmmm.  You make a good point, Myles..  Lemme read what Sean wrote, again.  If I do that, I kiss off the dl and squat PR chase.   But then, the whole point here is to throw far, right?   Right?

RIGHT.

Lemme lay that out in an excel sheet....