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ROB EVANS 
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Joined: 11/12/08 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 401 |
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 Topic: Bench PressPosted: 5/27/11 at 1:45am |
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I've noticed a lot of discussions in the forum of some GAMERS saying they dispise this workout and others that swear by it. What our your thoughts. Is it relative to what we do? Do you just focus on inclines and shoulder presses? Can or can YOU not live without them?
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If Spencer Tyler is the gamma bomb of explosion, you and I are like single-serving flan cups in his lunchbox. Pasty, Jiggly, Delicious, but otherwise not very explosive. DUNCAN MCCALLUM
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C. Smith
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Posted: 5/27/11 at 1:56am |
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Everyone knows my opinion on this already.
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CHAD
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Posted: 5/27/11 at 2:17am |
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For my money. Push press if you can, flat bench (bounce bench too) if you can't.
My back can't handle lowering what I can push up, myself. I have jerk boxes, but dropping presses and jerks doesn't give me the time under tension I need. |
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ROB EVANS
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Posted: 5/27/11 at 2:18am |
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Craig. I don't. I do know your opinion on gym work and carry over. but not on the BP.
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If Spencer Tyler is the gamma bomb of explosion, you and I are like single-serving flan cups in his lunchbox. Pasty, Jiggly, Delicious, but otherwise not very explosive. DUNCAN MCCALLUM
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C. Smith
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Posted: 5/27/11 at 2:36am |
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I don't bench, and really haven't in over a decade. I think there are better options out there for an athlete.
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ROB EVANS
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Joined: 11/12/08 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 401 |
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Posted: 5/27/11 at 3:20am |
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Do you feel that it's an inferior movement or does it not produce the maximum results that you are looking for? The reason I ask is I don't like the darn things and prefer low inclines and standing presses and really am considering getting rid of them all together. I have never liked them and I think like you there are better options. |
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If Spencer Tyler is the gamma bomb of explosion, you and I are like single-serving flan cups in his lunchbox. Pasty, Jiggly, Delicious, but otherwise not very explosive. DUNCAN MCCALLUM
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mthompson33
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Posted: 5/27/11 at 7:12am |
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Ok Rob...
 Intro... http://nasgaweb.com/forums/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9995&am p;PN=1&TPN=32 Then Read 4th post on this page... http://nasgaweb.com/forums/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9995&am p;PN=1&TPN=35 |
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Matt Thompson
"If you wake up and you're not in pain, you know you're dead." -- Russian Proverb |
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mthompson33
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Posted: 5/27/11 at 7:15am |
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Also, my understanding is, that there is little difference in muscle recruitment between a flat bench and any incline less than 45 degrees.
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Matt Thompson
"If you wake up and you're not in pain, you know you're dead." -- Russian Proverb |
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ROB EVANS
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Posted: 5/27/11 at 7:37am |
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I didn't mean for this post to turn into "How much can ya bench" topic but rather a discussion from some of if they find it effective. I personally don't like the things and they tear my shoulders to shit. The form of BP I do find effective is the glose grip because they put the fire to my tri's and shoulders. |
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If Spencer Tyler is the gamma bomb of explosion, you and I are like single-serving flan cups in his lunchbox. Pasty, Jiggly, Delicious, but otherwise not very explosive. DUNCAN MCCALLUM
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mthompson33
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Posted: 5/27/11 at 7:58am |
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Rob, the point was not to show how much Craig could bench. The point is that Craig can bench that much without Benching. Just by doing other pressing movements, he still has all of the strength he needs to do the bench movement. That and the first page has his summary of his feelings about the bench...
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Matt Thompson
"If you wake up and you're not in pain, you know you're dead." -- Russian Proverb |
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Tim Barber
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Posted: 5/27/11 at 12:40pm |
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I bench, because I like to bench, but if I had to pick one for throwing it would be push press.
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Tap,snap or nap It does'nt matter to me.
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Tommi
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Posted: 5/27/11 at 12:53pm |
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I'm young, and possibly naive, but.... who does incline less than 45 degrees? Also, while I respect Mr. Craig Smith, who is an animal, I don't think I'll ever quit conventional bench. That is, however, specifically because of 2 main things. First, I enjoy other sports (such as powerlifting) in which I NEED it, and... Second, I am still trying to gain muscle mass (I'm small and vain) |
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Tommi.Kitchens.
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Hapy
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Posted: 5/27/11 at 2:03pm |
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In my opinion and experience, big benchers don't make good throwers,
though a lot of great throwers can bench pretty well (if/when they try to do it), and I know quite a few great throwers who can't bench particularly well. I think Craig posted a video somewhere when someone bet him he couldn't bench 325 or something, and he put it up as easy as pie. Moreso, I think that benching well means to figure out technique to shorten up the movement as much as possible (keeping the scapulas tight, arching the chest, etc.) I am 100% convinced that this hurts your stone throw where you want to extend your arm/shoulder as much as possible to get maximum push. |
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Tommi
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Posted: 5/27/11 at 11:35pm |
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I understand where you are coming from, but that is only when you are doing a powerlifting style bench press... There's as many ways to manipulate a Bench Press as any other exercise. For example, lifting your feet up to force your core to help balance and leave 90% of the weight on your chest and 10% on your triceps and shoulders (flat back, similar push, concentrated force) Not trying to argue that bench is essential, just saying I 100% feel like it will not hurt your throwing in the least bit. |
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Tommi.Kitchens.
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Alaska
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Posted: 5/28/11 at 8:42am |
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Benching is great for upper body development and strength
in general. Is your bench going to have any direct carryover to the field? Yes and no. How many people that post here and ask this question need the magic lift in the gym to make them better throwers? The answer is probably a low number. I have spent a lot of time in the last 4 years improving my bench for powerlifting, and I guarantee that has led to how far I can toss the stone. Would I throw the stone further if I spent the same effort on my press or push press? Maybe, maybe not. Then again, I am, and probably will always be, a lifter that throws. |
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Hurricane
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Posted: 5/29/11 at 12:43am |
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Well Rob u r going to hear a lot of opinions from people on this subject. Most think that the bench press does not help in Highland games i have to disagree. I just hit 425 bench on a 2 board this is after a torn peck on March 28. I should be near 475 by end of year. I feel being able to push that kind of weight helps in all aspects of highland games. Powerlifting carries over to the games starting legs hips back shoulders front delts etc. squat bench deadlift. I see guys with tons of technique but no upper body strength because they dont bench or really powerlift and they really cant throw that far. Then u got me with not a lot of technique but a lot of upper body strength and i can throw preety well... Bottom line is lift heavy, get strong, get technique and throw far. send me an instant message with your email because i have updated my Westside training routine... I have been doing Louie Simmons Westside since beginning of year and even though I tore my left peck on March 28 and severly tore my left hamstring and have pains all over my body I should have 475 traw bench and 700 raw dead by end of year. Up from last year 425 bench and 625 dead.. This is only my humble opinion......... |
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"If I can see it then I can do it if I just believe it,there's nothing to it"
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C. Smith
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Posted: 5/29/11 at 1:03am |
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As I've stated before over and over, given unlimited recovery time and unlimited training time, which almost no one has, I would always include a horizontal press of some sort for general upper body mass/strength.
Since basically no one has that, it would make sense to utilize your time more efficiently and do something with greater athletic carryover. I said in my log a while back:
As stated earlier in the thread, I basically haven't benched in over a decade and could easily put up a mid-400's bench. If you're just a bench monkey and like to bro it up in the gym with the bench, or you're a PLer, then go for it. I'm talking strictly training for athletic carryover.
This is really just lolworthy. Either you haven't really thrown with "guys with tons of technique", or you're throwing against 4th graders.
I suppose it all depends on your definition of "preety well" and how good of an athlete you want to be. I suspect our individual answers are quite different.
I agree with this 100%. |
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jsully
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Posted: 5/29/11 at 4:48am |
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this is incorrect.. mr smith is actually a bench jockey in disguise, he secretly attends bench only meets just for fun.. |
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jsully
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Posted: 5/29/11 at 5:07am |
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I personally hate benching, I choose incline, strict ohp and push presses for my pressing needs. Unless you're competing in something that involves benching, the bench itself is just a "tool" in the toolbox with plenty of others to choose from
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Hurricane
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Posted: 5/29/11 at 8:03am |
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I dont really care if you bench or not Mr Smith I must suspect that you must be a pro highland game thrower because u are the only one who throws with great athletes. This is why I hate giving my opinion on this weak weak forum because little children like yourself always have to make everything a battle I am not sure why maybe because you are not satisfied with yourself I dont know grow the f**k up Smith I did not mention any specific names at all in my last blog. The main thing was I thing squat bench and deads play a huge part in your strength and will help in highland games. If you dont agree thats fine but when you get personal like you are it just makes this forum very very weak and I should just not make any comments about anything but I do and when I saw a bench thread I thought I could give and opinion without some asshole turing this into something not fun... We are all entitled to our opinions lets try and respect that. And I am throwing with 4th graders, thats exactly what your acting like Smith...
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"If I can see it then I can do it if I just believe it,there's nothing to it"
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C. Smith
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Posted: 5/29/11 at 8:49am |
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Wow, reading comprehension. 1) I don't really care if you bench or not either, and nowhere in my above post could you deduce otherwise. 2) I didn't make anything a battle, but surely you don't believe what you wrote? I have seen guys with weak benches throw mid 50's in the stone, mid 40's in the HWFD, 17 WOB, etc..., so for you to say "I see guys with tons of technique but no upper body strength because they dont bench or really powerlift and they really cant throw that far" is either wildly inaccurate, or your embellishment of their technical skills is immense. Anyone can look through the database at numbers and confirm that. 3) Being that we just established I didn't make it a battle, but was instead merely stating FACTS, where in my post did I make anything personal? I said absolutely nothing regarding your personal accomplishments, and never even reference anything but some throws made by individuals I know to be weak in the bench and other "powerlifts". 4) I actually agreed with your "bottom line". Now, all that being said, in your short post you called me a little child, an asshole, said I wasn't satisfied with myself, told me to grow the f**k up, and said I was acting like a 4th grader. Be careful not to shatter your glass house with all those stones you are throwing, lol. |
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kevinfitz
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Posted: 5/29/11 at 11:19am |
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Hurricane
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Posted: 5/30/11 at 12:39am |
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OK Smith maybe i got carried away alittle if so i appologize. I should have watched your you tube video first, cause i do not know u at all but saw that 405 bench which was preety good it looked like the way i throw up 405. You o bviously have great upper body strength and front delts which i think comes from benching and in my opinion will help in throwing. So anyway keep training hard... I usually break a lot of my glass houses with my mouth just a bad habbit...
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"If I can see it then I can do it if I just believe it,there's nothing to it"
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BigScot50
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Posted: 5/30/11 at 3:47pm |
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I agree with those who are proponents of doing the lifts where there are more muscle groups recruited during the exercise. Push presses, cleans, snatches, deads, all sound good to me. If you like to bench, bench. I still use bench in my workouts. I am by no means a world-class thrower, but I like the movement and I never use anything more than 225 when doing reps and never do more than 4 sets of 6-10 most times. It is more comfort for me as most of my workouts in the past have incorporated bench routine. The reason that I do not use more than 225 is every time I start bumping up the weight in my bench, I start losing flexibility big time in my shoulders and chest, and kinda hard to throw well when you have shortened up muscles too much. Not that my opinion matters much, just like to give out another perspective on the topic.
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"He who makes a beast out of himself, gets rid of the pain of being a man." - Samuel Johnson (english poet)
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matt
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Posted: 5/30/11 at 11:02pm |
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I flat benched twice a week and enjoyed alot.
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Sean Betz
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Posted: 5/31/11 at 1:54am |
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The bench press can be a good lift, if you can do it without hurting yourself. I have had minor pec tears, at least 4 times benching. That's why I gave it up 6 years ago. It is also not the safest thing on your rotator cuff. No room for the shoulder joint to move. Unlike the overhead presses or push presses. I have since hit PR's in all my events without bench pressing. I just figure if I hurt my right pec or my right shoulder, I can't really throw anything. So its not worth the risk. Bench pressing alot of weight helps if you, if you know how to use your legs first. Otherwise it can be a detriment. Louie Simmons is a great powerlifting coach, maybe the best. But realize that everything he talks about relates to a bigger total in his sport. This is just my opinion.
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Borges
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Posted: 5/31/11 at 7:59am |
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Like anything else, it's a risk vs. reward thing. You make the calculation and then you take your chances. I seem to recall that Art McDermott liked working the bench pretty heavy (a lot of discus guys do). On the other hand, I also seem to recall that he ended up with a full thickness pec tear that ended his season one year. One thing that I've heard from a number of top throwers is that heavy isn't as important as fast. That is, they'll focus on things like getting five or ten reps as fast as possible with a light weight like 225 and do very little or no work with any weight beyond that. |
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Cheers,
Carlos "Live free or die" |
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Silverback
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Posted: 5/31/11 at 8:48am |
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Mr. Harvey please post more
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Mule
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Tim P
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Posted: 5/31/11 at 2:53pm |
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Even before I started throwing just last year I had long ago abandoned the bench press.
The only benching I do and have done for over 15 years now is incline. Even then I only come down to my nose, not all the way to the chest. I have found that it's safer on my shoulders to do that. And I dont max out. Just not interested in it. Maybe 85-90% of a 2 rep max occasionally. I dont see how it directly helps any HG events myself. But I'm a newb, so for what thats worth...  my gym rat .02 |
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"What's the matter boy? you got ants in your pants?
No Ma'am...hot steel balls!" Jerry Clower |
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Hurricane
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Posted: 6/01/11 at 12:48am |
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I am not sure how this became such a big topic but if u take just powerlifting the squat bench and deadlift i really think those are going to help in highland games start at the bottom of body calves, hams, glutes, lowerback, lats, upper back shoulders etc... I personally think and it is mixed opinion that since i have the strength from the flat bench which also strengthens front delt i will throw the stone father once i can get that breamar technique down. I am a powerlifter that wants to be a very competative highland games athlete... And I am comming for you Hapy!!!!!
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"If I can see it then I can do it if I just believe it,there's nothing to it"
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mthompson33 wrote: