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chirolifter
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Topic: Nutrition for performancePosted: 6/05/12 at 6:57am |
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How many here think nutrition plays a part on your Athletic performance?
For me its a no brainer. Volumes have been written on the subject. Besides, your body benefits most... I know ill get a lot of jokes here. Im sure if you knew 100% that eating a bowl of oatmeal vs. the cup cake would make you throw 10% farther, you would undoubtedly eat the oatmeal.... Thoughts? |
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Nathan Parker
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Posted: 6/05/12 at 7:09am |
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"No Brainer" is absolutely correct. The hard part is actually eating clean all the time. Foods that are best for you aren't always the tastiest, or convenient to prepare. I have turned into a shake guy. I love creating combos of different shakes to get some good grub in my belly.
My fav: rolled oats, strawberries, mango, rice milk and protien powder. Breakfast of champions!
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chirolifter
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Posted: 6/05/12 at 7:39am |
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My breakfast- oats, flax meal, van/choc protien pwdr and h20.
When you eat clean all the time you actually get your real taste buds back and the food actually starts to taste good. So when I eat out things are sooooooooo salty... Your taste buds get ruined from eating processed food all the time... When the body is clean and non toxic it is very sensitive, you may get symptoms more often. A clean body hates toxins and flushes then quickly. When the body is highly toxic, ie; alcohol, cigarettes, drugs, processed foods, etc.. it will just keep storing the toxins and not much will bother it- except when the person comes down with cancer or other disease! |
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"It's what you do when no one is watching that builds character."
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C. Smith
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Posted: 6/05/12 at 7:40am |
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Let's not confuse "eating clean" or "eating healthy" with eating for optimum performance, especially with regards to strength sports.
So I'll take Gene's obvious example and turn it around on him. What if you knew 100% that eating the cupcake would make you throw 10% farther, but it would also take one month off your life...what do you do? If you take the throws, which I suspect the truly competitive do, how many times in your career do you take that option? Live one year less? Two years? Ten years? |
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chirolifter
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Posted: 6/05/12 at 7:43am |
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When I was in my 20-30s - I would for sure 100% eat the cupcake.. Now a bit wiser (I think) i will def. opt for longevity and health over farther throws .. Good question...
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"It's what you do when no one is watching that builds character."
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mike pockoski
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Posted: 6/05/12 at 9:28am |
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100% agree with the food allergy comments...
people will put endless effort into squatting just 5 more pounds or throwing 5 inches further, but miss a full 3rd of their training (i.e work + rest + fuel = full training) by eating processed crap. If people would skip a lift once a week and put that misused effort into shopping and preparing clean fuel for the week, they'd be better for it in the long run. i guess sweat and chalk are more glorious than shopping and cooking, so folks are easily swayed into "working" instead of resting and fueling. skip the cupcake and skip the oatmeal...eat the grilled chicken and throw far instead. |
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C. Smith
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Posted: 6/05/12 at 9:36am |
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Do you truly believe that eating chicken breasts (or eating "clean" in general) is the optimal way to eat for strength and performance in this sport??
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brandell
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Posted: 6/05/12 at 9:46am |
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As my Gastro told me 'its all about moderation'. Eat a little cleaner, drink a little more water, cut out a little more crap but have balance.
Now fwiw the guy actually lifts (not like us or anything) runs, and is in pretty good shape. Not one of these fat asses smoking a pack a day telling you to work out and lose weight or anything.
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M-BAAB
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Posted: 6/05/12 at 9:47am |
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+1 on the big massive morning shake w all the goodies I can fit in.
This morning , strawberries, blueberries, pro powder, olive oil, cup and half of oatmeal , 1% milk , cinnamon , tumeric . raw green tea , coconut oil , 2 eggs and a banana, It varies depending on wh/s in the kitchen. |
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mike pockoski
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Posted: 6/05/12 at 1:00pm |
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Craig - absolutely. (for me anyway)
...definitions of clean will vary, obv. we don't eat grassfed beef and farmers market organic veggies so we're not all the way hippie clean...but if i don't eat a big hunk of meat and a big pile of veggies at every meal i feel and train like crap. have played with different diets and eating plans for too many years to know what makes me feel level all day long, what makes me crash, what jumps me up, etc... this winter we were way off the path and we were in an eating slump and the highest weight i've been (303 and no working out!) and i felt like crap, BP was all over the place, etc). cut out all the crap and some of the big allergy items, and it's like day and night and training is good. we try to leave food as close to its natural state as we reasonably can (nothing in a box, processed, etc.) and it works for us. easy to grill, eat stuff raw, less prep, etc. of course, i'm not going for a 700# squat and i never want to be heavier than i am now (actually would like to continue slowly dropping wt and i believe my throws will maintain or get better) but i don't approach this sport as get stronger = throw farther. i think that philosophy = flaws and holes in your game. i approach as athlete = good performance, better athlete = better performance so eating goals are not the same as strong guys. |
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jsully
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Posted: 6/05/12 at 1:32pm |
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I'm not on the level mike P and craig are on, but here's my $.02 anyways.
Eating for health and eating for performance are two VERY different things. Most elite athletes are far from the healthiest they could be. Those elite athletes strive for performance. Supplements, weight gainers, garbage food, etc. You think Michael Phelps eats 12k calories/day of chicken and rice? doubtful.
I eat what I want. Plain and simple. Right now I'm dieting. I allow myself 240-250g protein. 150-170g carbs and 40-60g fat. Thats it. If I choose "healthy" foods, I get lots and lots of food. That could also be read "lots and lots of boring, flavorless food". If I choose poorly, I get very little but very delicious food. I try to be in the middle of that but I refuse to eat food I dislike. In my experience, centralizing carbs and protein around my training yeilds more energy, better lifts, better results. If I have too much fat in there without many carbs or protein and I'm very sluggish. Obviously, I didn't do that anymore after I figured that out (unless I'm feeling 39 cent tacos from del taco).
I have dropped 32lbs in the last 3 1/2 months and threw 44/83 weights in training on Saturday. Strength is steady, energy levels are steady and throws are ever improving. My nutrition? Friday afternoon I had my cheat meal for the week. 8 slices of absolutely delicious pizza hut pizza. I think I had some milk and something small for dinner, but I don't really remember. Saturday morning I woke up, downed a shake + 2 bananas. Took 400mg of caffeine and sipped on a 32oz gatorade diluted into 1gallon of water for the entire workout. It was one of the best throwing sessions I've had in a very very long time. I wasn't recovered because on friday I deadlifted/ohp in the morning and threw in the afternoon. I attribute the energy great workout to the nutrition aspect. So, I think nutrition has a bigger role than all others. Without fuel workouts roll to a stop, training goes down hill, etc.. but I don't think we have to be as paleo as everyone promotes.
Mike, you mentioned you were eating garbage and weighing 303 but not training. Imagine the results if you had been training. Just a thought. Calories = fuel (period). If you've got enough carbs proteins and fats, it will yield performance gain. I've had some of my best workouts after eating taco bell or olive garden for lunch. You'll see me out on the field eating my sweet tarts and nerds between every throw while sipping on a gatorade or some other carb drink all day long. Haha. |
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KiltBill
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Posted: 6/05/12 at 2:07pm |
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Great topic.
Several years ago I read about the benefits of contrast baths. Bought a hot tub and placed it on the back screen porch with an old horse trough beside it. The contrast is a lot more in the winter than in the summer. The difference is with the colder water soreness and inflamation are a lot less. Health benefits are the same all year round. Have been doing this about 3 years now, healthiest 3 years in my life. Whole family and friends see and agree on the health benefits but no one wants to actually do it themselves. Some are very strict with there diets and some work out very hard but none wants to be in the cold water. This has always amazed me, a little discomfort now versus major discomfort later. The reason this works is the contrast bath makes the body think you have a fever and makes more white blood cell to fight the infection. As per Dr's Agatha and Calvin Thrash of Seale Alabama's Uchee Pines. |
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Remember Kay Cummings, Father of the Highland Games in the Southeast and my friend. Lets Go Run With The Big Dogs!
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chirolifter
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Posted: 6/05/12 at 4:44pm |
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I dont buy the "all calories created equal" concept.. I would much prefer a cup of brown rice over a cup of white pasta. Look at the nitrients.. That is more important than the calories.. Brown rice is loaded with natural B vitamins, white pasta is enriched with "fake" synthetic vitamins which dont get absorbed half the time..
1 cup of cooked oats over a pop tart.. Pop tart= empty calories (and sodium)... Oats= vit/min/fiber Basic Physiology- body runs better on clean fuel.. Body bogged down on processed food.. What is clean fuel- well if you all dont know that its a discussion on its own.. |
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"It's what you do when no one is watching that builds character."
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brandell
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Posted: 6/05/12 at 4:54pm |
Note to self: Make big shake mandatory part of the morning routine.
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brandell
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Posted: 6/05/12 at 4:55pm |
Agreed 100% Gene. And I have found out recently (well it has been going on, just didn't pay attention) I am gluten intollerent. I mean it takes nothing these days to bloat me. Its just time to make some easy changes. Plus with my goals I need to start really dialing in the diet.
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chirolifter
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Posted: 6/05/12 at 5:16pm |
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I think what a lot of the younger guys miss is the fact that when you are young your body is not as sensitive to the things you eat. For instance- a young body can handle a lot more nutrition abuse than an old body.. Probably because the old body was once abused nutritionally when younger...
When I had the Weightlifting team, it was over about 6 yrs of constant training with kids from 6-21. I saw with my own eyes the benefits of good wholesome clean foods on a young body. Those kids would get super strong quicker than those still eating fast food and processed crap and the recover rate was 2x faster. i could load these kids with unreal volume and intensity and they could take it. The other group would brake down, and most likely little dings would come up.. Sleep was a huge factor also. And of course ALL were anabolic free.. Give a young body proper nutrition when the natural testosterone is climbing and you will create one strong person.. Size of course limited or gained by their caloric intake.. |
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"It's what you do when no one is watching that builds character."
Gene Flynn |
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jsully
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Posted: 6/05/12 at 5:18pm |
this thread is about nutrition for performance, no? with that said.....
your oats vs pop tart is arguable. while I agree that it is healthier, I disagree that it is better for peformance.
oats are loaded with fiber. fiber cant be digested or used for energy. also, oats are low on the glycemic index meaning they won't raise blood sugars and they will take longer to digest. the fuel you get from them won't be available until many hours later and you probably won't notice an energy boost at all. also, they're bland unless you add stuff. what are you going to add? brown sugar, syrup, fruit, spices? the fruit isn't going to give you immediate energy either because fructose has to be broken down by the liver before its available to be used for energy. lastly, because they digest so slow, they'll just sit in your guy. definately not something I want before a day on the field.
pop tarts have higher fat, less fibers and protein. the higher fat will slow down digestion, but not to the affect the oats will. the hfcs will spike insulin levels and although the pop tart itself won't be available for immediate energy, anything else in your system that is just hanging around that has already been broken and is readily available will be on its way to be used. again I'll reference michael phelps: http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/08/13/the-michael-phelps-diet-dont-try-it-at-home/ 12k calories.. doesn't look like any of them are clean, yet he's one of the best athletes of all time.
again, this is nutrition for performance. Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree, eating healthy is better for you in living a longer, happier life. But when it boils down, a carbohydrate gram has 4 calories, a protein gram has 4 calories and a fat gram has 9 calories. With that said, you can eat clean calories or dirty calories, but dirty calories are still fuel. Something to think about; one of the absolute best carbohydrates for immediate energy is dextrose because it is digested quickly and can be available to be used for energy faster than anything else. It is the closest thing to glucose there is. Dextrose is processed from starch. Waxy maize is another if you like the taste of cornstarch. |
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jsully
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Posted: 6/05/12 at 5:34pm |
I want to let it be known that I don't disagree with you on the larger scale. Consistent Burger King and Taco Bell will not yield the performance gains that you want. My point was moreso that all the bland, boring paleo foods aren't fantastic either and I wouldn't rely on it to fuel me for game day.
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Pingleton
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Posted: 6/05/12 at 5:40pm |
Just playing Devil's Advocate (sort of) for a minute here: 1. An elite swimmer is a very differnet animal than a competitive thrower. Very different training and very different energy requirements. He literally needs fuel to burn. 2. On a related note, how much carb energy do you really think a thrower or heavy lifter needs for a few intense seconds of effort followed by 2-6 minutes of rest? I am not denying the energy boost provided by sugar etc and more significantly caffeine, but your muscles are never going to become glycogen depleted training like this, unlike a swimmer, wrestler, cyclist, etc. Thoughts?
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jsully
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Posted: 6/05/12 at 6:25pm |
great argument
1. I agree, and that's why he's eating 12k calories. There are a number of guys here who's calorie requirements are in excess of 4000. My maitnenance calories are 3700-4000 and that's to just maintain my bodyweight.
2. Hmm.. I see your point. I answer that with a question, when you hit your "wall" in the middle of the day throwing, do you think that is glycogen depletion? It takes energy to stand around all day waiting for your turn, then hit it 110% 27+ times not including any extras or misses on wob/sheaf. When you're in the gym, do you ever hit a wall where you feel like you're just done? Surely that isn't glycogen depletion from just one workout. Ever drink a carb shake when you hit that wall, wait 15 minutes and you're able to go back at it? Or better yet, ever anticipate the wall and drink ahead of time?
Lyle McDonald has a formula that you can use to figure out how much glycogen you're storing. I don't remember what it is and I'm too lazy to look it up. But I remember purposely draining all glycogen stores on day 1 and 2 while on the UD2 to enhance weight loss. I was able to completely drain glycogen stores in 2 1.5hr workouts. IMO, it's ideal to keep those stores topped off. We agree that glucose in the blood stream (as a result of food) needs to be either used immediatly, stored as glycogen or stored as fat, correct? Glycogen is converted to glucose prior to use for energy. Dextrose when consumed is used immediately (if we're physically active at the time). Our body will use the dextrose/glucose prior to pulling from glycogen supplies, therefore keeping energy levels high. It's been a very very long time since I did any nutrition/dieting research so I apologize for my bro-science.
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Duncan McCallum
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Posted: 6/05/12 at 7:03pm |
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Contact James Bullock about eating foodz.
I had toothpaste, 3 Xyience energy drinks, a breath mint, and two pieces of gum. Feeling like a Boss.
(For my romance novel cover shoot tomorrow!!!)
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The man in the arena.
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Pingleton
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Posted: 6/05/12 at 8:14pm |
I was not specifically thinking about a Games day, when you definitely have a point. I would also say I overstated the case when I said "ever" above, but I stand by my general argument for normal workouts.
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We do not stop playing because we grow old. We grow old because we stop playing. - George Bernard Shaw |
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chirolifter
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Posted: 6/05/12 at 8:50pm |
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"the hfcs will spike insulin levels and although the pop tart itself
won't be available for immediate energy, anything else in your system
that is just hanging around that has already been broken and is readily
available will be on its way to be used".
Sully- I would prefer to keep blood sugar levels even throughout the day of a game to avoid ups and downs, So I sip maltodextrin all day long.. The only spike I get is from caffeine.. With the maltodextrin (and aminos) I feel relatively good throughout the day and my strength levels stay pretty even.. I understand what your saying... |
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"It's what you do when no one is watching that builds character."
Gene Flynn |
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chirolifter
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Posted: 6/05/12 at 8:50pm |
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"It's what you do when no one is watching that builds character."
Gene Flynn |
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chirolifter
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Posted: 6/05/12 at 8:50pm |
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"the hfcs will spike insulin levels and although the pop tart itself
won't be available for immediate energy, anything else in your system
that is just hanging around that has already been broken and is readily
available will be on its way to be used".
Sully- I would prefer to keep blood sugar levels even throughout the day of a game to avoid ups and downs, So I sip maltodextrin all day long.. The only spike I get is from caffeine.. With the maltodextrin (and aminos) I feel relatively good throughout the day and my strength levels stay pretty even.. I understand what your saying... |
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"It's what you do when no one is watching that builds character."
Gene Flynn |
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brandell
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Posted: 6/05/12 at 9:15pm |
If you don't roll over your hair....
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brandell
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Posted: 6/05/12 at 9:18pm |
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Dr. Gene, still need to give you a ring. Will try tomorrow night.
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Silverback
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Posted: 6/06/12 at 7:44am |
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I grew up living near the life extension institute in S. Florida and have been looking at this subject now for over 35 years. In college I would eat 500 dessicated livers a week, have them in my pocket at class, everyplace. All that said, I think the fats we take in are the new thing and most important for life extension. If I was at the graduation ceremony with a young person, I would say one word to them. No, not plastics. Fish oil. Remember, you only get one lab rat, be good to it.
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brandell
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Posted: 6/06/12 at 8:07am |
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+1 Fish oil
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dl_buffy
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Posted: 6/07/12 at 1:12pm |
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Post workout....chilli, brown rice, chocolate cake, skim milk (out of whole in cafeteria).
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I have very few social interaction skills, so I just throw stuff instead. |
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