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where are my hamstrings?!?!?!

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jpfitness1 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 8/29/13 at 7:32pm
No, I'm not an idiot. I know where my hamstrings are. I just can't seem to load them during a deadlift. I typically do conventional deadlifts.

I feel my hammies and glutes when I do hip raises and when I do squats, but can't seem to load them doing deads.

I've seen some people do a roll out with the weight then pull it back, but that doesn't seem to work for me. Any good videos or suggestions?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote grasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 8/29/13 at 9:09pm
Hmmmmmmm.  Why?
I have some of the weakest hammys in the world.
Never ever thought about how they feel in the dead.
Just try and look up and shoot your feet through the floor.
I always started the pull with my legs (quads) and finished with my lower back.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpfitness1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 8/29/13 at 9:21pm
I just feel that if I try to just keep pulling with my back, someday there will be a loud pop. I want to work my hip strength more
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 17/20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 8/30/13 at 7:23am
Just pull your hips up a little higher at the start hammies will load up. But you should add good mornings your hams will load up on the eccentric.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jhbucy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 8/30/13 at 8:21am
Romanian Deadlifts will murder your hamstrings. Especially if done right after traditional deads.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpfitness1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 8/30/13 at 3:21pm
It may be my hamstrings are weak. In which case, RDLs, GMs, and GHRs will crush them. However, I'm trying to do a conventional deadlift recruiting all the proper muscles. I don't feel I recruit my hams enough. I will try to set my hips higher, but I assume its lower than an RDL. If I can, I will put a video up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 17/20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 8/30/13 at 5:18pm
Check out Boltons and Konstanvos starting position.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rob meulenberg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 8/30/13 at 6:02pm
Josh, why are you so worried about "loading" your hammies during the DL?  The question you should be asking is "how does your form look"?  Not everyone pulls alike.  See Don's last post. 

Konstantinovs has one of the most rounded (upper) back pulls your will see.  Bolton's back is definitely more flat, but they both have their lower back in the correct positions. 

To me, since the deadlift is a full body compound movement I never think about a certain bodypart when performing them.  You need to get the weight off the ground using the correct form for your body.  If your hammies are not getting as much work as you like, there were many good suggestions in this thread for annihilating them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpfitness1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 8/30/13 at 7:32pm
I just feel I need to get stronger to throw further. I think some of my technique issues in my worst events are partly due to lack of strength. I believe that I am missing out on huge strength potential because my DL technique is not locked in. I don't think I will ever pull a HUGE DL, but I feel I have a lot more to pull if I can utilize all my muscle groups available for the lift.

I think I will spend some time trying to bring my hamstring and glute strength up. Then they should be able to kick in more when they are supposed to.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rob meulenberg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 8/30/13 at 8:54pm
I totally agree getting your pull up will help tremendously.  I am just saying that worrying about loading a certain bodypart is not as important as perfecting technique.  From your last response, I think you realize that.

Get some video of your DL and post it up for us.  I will gladly give comments.  If your form looks good and you do not feel like you have the hamstring involvement you want, then you can turn to other exercises to crush them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpfitness1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 8/30/13 at 9:48pm
Thanks Rob and Don, I will try to get some video up when I get a chance.
I know when I do my heaviest deadlifts, I seem to get pulled forward. I do have a slightly rounded back throughout the movement, but that's my posture and it stays solid.

I am also afraid of getting hurt, so if I feel only my back working, I drop the bar.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AlDargie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 8/31/13 at 5:47am
Josh you can also try widening your feet or grip to shorten pull length - this will ease some back strain.  A snatch grip is also going to recruit more back, lats as well as the hips.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote James Fuller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 8/31/13 at 8:34am
Try Deads with a 25lb plate under the balls of each foot. It will tilt you forward some which, will make the Hams work harder at keeping you upright. You could also try Deadlifting the weight up then lowering it Stiff Legged style with an arched back. When you bottom out on the Stiff Legged ROM, let the legs bend and put the bar back on the floor. Do your reps this way on warmups then go to regular Deads. Should be interesting. Yes, you can do this with or with out the plates under the balls of the feet but, the plates will engage the Hams more and will stretch the hell out of your Calves and Hams. Also, something I read about in PL USA was a Deadlift done in the rack with pins set at a 45 degree angle. One end would be against the OTHER side of the rack on the floor and the other end would be against the rack near you at about hip level. You'd have the bar on top of the floor pins at the start.You would pull from the floor with the bar on the other side of the rack. As you pulled, the bar would slide up the pins getting closer to you. At the top, the bar would be in its normal top position. Good luck,I hope this helps and let us know how it goes. If I find the PL USA article, I'll try to post it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpfitness1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 9/11/13 at 6:38pm
390 x 3

http://youtu.be/HV46IPVk1so

475 x 1

http://youtu.be/z5JWkyZHWZ8

I didn't notice anything glaring, but any thoughts on the form.

One thought is that my spinal erectors might be weak. I know a few people do various circuits for mid-back and spinal work. Any suggestions?

As always, thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 9/11/13 at 6:55pm
Nothing wrong with that pull. Hips don't shoot up first, looks like you're pushing your feet through the floor.

You want to pull more? Upper back work is always a plus, more core strength always helps and I'm a huge fan of the snatch grip RDL for hamstrings.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote James Fuller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 9/11/13 at 7:17pm
Deads standing on a 3" block or thereabouts will help with the leg drive off the floor.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 9/12/13 at 8:02am
Never been a fan of deficit pulls my own self but you can't argue that some guys get tons out of them. For me the risk/reward curve never seemed right.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rob meulenberg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 9/12/13 at 9:54am
Josh, gotta agree with Sean.  That is a nice looking pull.  Seriously.  I would not change a thing.

Which not goes back to your original post.  If you feel like you are not getting enough hamstring work, DO NOT CHANGE ANYTHING ABOUT YOUR DEADLIFT.  It looks good.  Just do another exercise.

And I know you won't want to do this due to a risk of injury, but IMO, you won't know your true weak point(s) on the DL until you actually push it.  That 475 looked like cake.  I would need to see you struggle with a near max effort, nut busting attempt to really see where your form wants to break down.

Nice work man.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jsully Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 9/12/13 at 10:40am
Originally posted by Sean Sean wrote:

Nothing wrong with that pull. Hips don't shoot up first, looks like you're pushing your feet through the floor.

You want to pull more? Upper back work is always a plus, more core strength always helps and I'm a huge fan of the snatch grip RDL for hamstrings.

 
+1 that looks like a solid pull to me. Really the only thing I do different is pull back more as soon as it touches my knees. That engages my glutes/hips better for the top portion. Something I learned from a 750+ puller.
 
I like to pull standing on 25lb plates so it's about a 2" deficit. Really makes you focus on keeping your chest up and pulling back.
 
Also, upper back work is big. I hate doing upper back these days. I know that if I was consistent I would probably put a good deal on my pull. Front squats, heavy db or bb rows and lots of pullups will help your deadlift.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CHAD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 9/12/13 at 11:00am
Upper back work make the weight feel lighter in your hands, helps you hold good positions.  I likes me some upper back work.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote James Fuller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 9/12/13 at 2:01pm
Originally posted by Sean Sean wrote:

Never been a fan of deficit pulls my own self but you can't argue that some guys get tons out of them. For me the risk/reward curve never seemed right.

???? risk/reward????? Get your back set tight and drive your feet through the floor. That's all there is to it. What risk/reward are you talking about?? Am NOT trying to be a dick, I just never heard anyone talk about getting hurt on deficit pulls. Also, with deficit pulls, have to hold onto the bar a bit longer which benefits your grip endurance/strength. Good luck
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jsully Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 9/12/13 at 2:08pm
I'm not Sean but I can see the risk/reward not being worth it............. above 3".
 
Once you get into 4-5-6" territory it makes it very difficult to keep your butt down. If you slip up and your hips come up too soon, now the bar is way out front and you're pulling with your lower back in bad position. Just because your back is straight doesn't mean you can't hurt it.
 
I can pull up to about 85% from a 4" deficit without tech breaking down, but I can pull 100% from a 2-3" deficit with no issues. It's all your body mechanics and what you're comfortable with.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote James Fuller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 9/12/13 at 3:37pm
"Once you get into 4-5-6" territory it makes it very difficult to keep your butt down. If you slip up and your hips come up too soon, now the bar is way out front and you're pulling with your lower back in bad position. Just because your back is straight doesn't mean you can't hurt it." jsully, I don't think we were talking about that extreme of a deficit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jsully Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 9/12/13 at 5:32pm
Originally posted by James Fuller James Fuller wrote:

jsully, I don't think we were talking about that extreme of a deficit.
 
I didn't see anybody defining the range of the deficit so I assumed all ranges were being referred to. Sorry.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john gallagher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 9/12/13 at 6:53pm
I usually tell my throwers you can find your hammies IF you pull your head out of your ass.  There are 2 parts to the hammies.  The hip attachment and the knee attachment.  You are obviously very strong at the hip attachment.  What about the knee attachment?  Leg curls of many kinds will help that if you even need it.  Glute/ham raises and reverse hyper specifically work the hip attachment part but if you can dead lift like that you certainly don't have a weakness at the hip.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote James Fuller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 9/12/13 at 7:04pm
Originally posted by James Fuller James Fuller wrote:

Deads standing on a 3" block or thereabouts will help with the leg drive off the floor.

I agree with you that you don't need to do that extreme of a deficit. I would hope some 'common sense' would kick in saying,"Nope, that just don't feel right!"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpfitness1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/16/13 at 7:26pm
still haven't found my hamstrings. I'm going to try to work that in the next routine.

However, today I pulled my first 500 lb deadlift. I will get some video up shortly. I feel I do have a bit more, but my mid-back was definitely starting to break down.

I'm thinking of trying some Nordic leg curls for the hammies and good mornings for the hammies and mid back extensors.

Thoughts?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duncan McCallum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/16/13 at 8:06pm
Well done on the dead! Not that you asked, but I've always considered 500 to be "one of those" numbers...kinda like 315 on bench press. You can either do it, or you can't. (Yet!)

So good on ya.

If you can find one, I'd try to score a GHR. Christian's Fitness Factory has them CHEAP from time to time (shill over) and this little piece of equipment has made all of the difference in my deads and squats. The only thing I use more in the gym is my iPod.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Speer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/26/13 at 10:08am
My two cents if it adds anything but I'm the light skinny guy. LOL

I've felt that just an inch or two too forward in the set up position and pull that I loose the sit back'd loaded legs feel of a good pull.

You may be a bit too forward on your pull looking at the vid - angle from your hands to your shoulders. The way I learned DLs is that I want to be directly over the bar as measured by the arm hang. With my scapula squeezed and back held rigid my arms will be straight down, shoulders/scap more or less over the bar. I get a nice sit back over the bar feel on the pull. My legs feel "used"

I also recommend Romanian DLs and Front Squats.
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