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Proposed Qualifying Distances MWC

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WALLY.OLECIK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WALLY.OLECIK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 6/03/15 at 1:49am
Originally posted by swollenknuck swollenknuck wrote:

...why not go with the LWFD, Light Hammer and Open Stone as they are universally contested at all Highland Games whereas the Heavy Hammer and Braemar are often dropped from the rotation at lots of games.  That also would allow those that have turned 40 during the offseason to still have qualifying marks in all three events....

l agree!  lt does seem to be a better solution.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote K Rogers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 6/03/15 at 8:21am
Hey-

If you'd like ... I can publish the medians for all the distance events that we compete.

If we do that .. then I'd suggest that we follow with something like this:

40's must make 3 medians
50's must make 2 medians
60's must make 1 median
70' s are excluded.

Just thinking out loud here,

-K
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote K Rogers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 6/03/15 at 9:21am
So-

What you're saying is that it could/should be:

1) Scots Hammer,
2) Weight for Distance and 
3) Stone.

... and then we publish the medians for both the light and heavy options of implements ... either one counts ???

That way we could use all know possible combinations of games results from all over the universe to compare to the medians established from the historical masters records for use in defining a qualifying standard.

Cause that's what I''m hearing you say??

-K


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sammy68123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 6/03/15 at 9:56am
Originally posted by K Rogers K Rogers wrote:

the medians established from the historical masters records for use in defining a qualifying standard


I'm not clear on what you mean with the "historical masters records".

Aren't you using all MWC performances in each event for each class to find the median for each group?
Teresa Merrick
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K Rogers View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote K Rogers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 6/03/15 at 10:40am
Teresa-

Yes, those are the historical records that I'm speaking of.

-K
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote S McCracken Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 6/04/15 at 10:09am
Originally posted by K Rogers K Rogers wrote:

Hey-

If you'd like ... I can publish the medians for all the distance events that we compete.

If we do that .. then I'd suggest that we follow with something like this:

40's must make 3 medians
50's must make 2 medians
60's must make 1 median
70' s are excluded.

Just thinking out loud here,

-K


If your going to go that far why not post 8 all events? Make each age group have to hit 50-60% of the numbers to qualify.

That’s just me trying to make it fare for those of us that suck at the stone but have the rest of the numbers to make up a competitive field

Either way its your show and I am happy to see you trying to make it better.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Soul Eater Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 6/05/15 at 9:58am
Make it an invite.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C. Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 6/05/15 at 11:53am
Originally posted by S McCracken S McCracken wrote:

 
If your going to go that far why not post 8 all events? Make each age group have to hit 50-60% of the numbers to qualify.
 

This is exactly how the Pro National Championship Rankings started 13 years ago.  We started with a few of the events and then expanded to all of them.  

If people want the possibility to compete at a "championship" game then they will find games that give the opportunity to get marks in each category.  Also, games may expand their current number of events to accommodate such qualifiers.  

Worked great for the Pros, can't see why it wouldn't work great for the masters.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian Randell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 6/05/15 at 1:02pm
Originally posted by C. Smith C. Smith wrote:

Originally posted by S McCracken S McCracken wrote:

 
If your going to go that far why not post 8 all events? Make each age group have to hit 50-60% of the numbers to qualify.
 

This is exactly how the Pro National Championship Rankings started 13 years ago.  We started with a few of the events and then expanded to all of them.  

If people want the possibility to compete at a "championship" game then they will find games that give the opportunity to get marks in each category.  Also, games may expand their current number of events to accommodate such qualifiers.  

Worked great for the Pros, can't see why it wouldn't work great for the masters.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Boyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 6/05/15 at 2:08pm
Great idea Kevin.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Sean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 6/08/15 at 7:00pm
I think the idea of qualifying marks is fantastic, honestly. I think Craig's expansion isn't bad but you run the risk of a guy qualifying on two stones, two weights and bombing both hammers.

Run the numbers in 2016 based off what you have now, Kev. Tweak over time.

Quick semi-related story: Our WOB standards start at 10'. It's literally the lowest they go. First year we put them up, a lot of guys bitched and missed the opening height. The next year? Pretty much all of them made 10'.

So for any guys who don't qualify right now, don't think of this as a wall. Think of it as a target.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hapy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 6/08/15 at 9:36pm
Originally posted by Sean Sean wrote:

I think Craig's expansion isn't bad but you run the risk of a guy qualifying on two stones, two weights and bombing both hammers.

You talking about me? Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote McSanta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 6/08/15 at 9:46pm
If worried about concentration in an event, why not qualify on one stone, one hammer, one weight.... does not matter weather heavy or light

fairness usually implies complexity

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 6/09/15 at 10:52am
^^^ That's a good call right there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rachet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 6/10/15 at 8:51pm
I am glad to see the proposal for qualifying scores for MWC.  It is a World Championships, after all. 

I have a concern with using HWFD as a score requirement for qualification since the weight thrown for this event varies between competitions for Masters Women's classes.  Women's 40-44 category that typically throws a 21# weight in Masters Women's Class competitions in my area, but throw a 28# in other areas.  The LWFD is the same weight across all women's classes and may be a more fair assessment score for weights.

I think a registration period with score requirements is needed and a wait list can be created for those that are outside the requirements.  It seems to me that the easiest way to rank a wait list is by having the applicants post the 3 individual required scores and a total combined score of those three distances.  If it becomes necessary to fill the classes, do this from the wait list in rank order.  This also allows someone who is a bit short on one event but very strong in the other two to help fill the class if spaces are needed to be filled and fills competition with the most qualified athletes.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flame of Idaho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7/15/15 at 3:14pm
So why not do it like Wally does for the Claw? You apply, then he takes the top ranked in limited number with a waiting list by rank. Easy.
And since it is a WORLD championship, would you want to do like the olympics and at least guarantee a few spots for other countries to be represented rather than all from the USA, eventhough US athletes usually rank highest?

On a different note, I've noticed a definate trend in those who have better heavy numbers have more brute strength, whereas those with better light numbers have technique. If you happen to decide to use all heavy events to make the judgement, you risk excluding many who have better technique but not necessarily the strength. (Obviously you would hope to have both strength AND technique at this level, but I'm just sharing the observation.)
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote K Rogers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7/21/15 at 7:04am
Hey-

I posted both light and heavy weight Proposed Qualifying Distances.


These values are the 6 medians per age group of the 14 years of Masters throws in the Scottish Masters Database.

For example, if I looked at 200 of the Masters throws selected by age group and recorded only at the Masters World Championships during the 14 years of competition, in either light or heavy events in our population of very age specific data - then this median value would be the distance of the throw ranked 100th.

I don't think that throwing over the Median is an impossible task to accomplish and it is a simple way to evaluate our population of throws and athletes. It is independent of the NASGA database to allow for the international athletes unlisted here and uses the highest quality of data.  

Nothing is Final yet, but I'm proposing a new qualifying method and listening to many advisers at the moment.

-K



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