assumptions

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   Are these assumptions valid?
WFD & stone require explosive hip/quad strength, coupled with near-isometric type strength in the obliques, thus necessitating training movements like front squats/lunges & russian twists/side bends.
Caber, sheaf, WOB, require explosive hip & hamstring strength, with near-isometric type strength in the low back, calling for oly lifts, with standard auxilliary movements to address individual weaknesses.
When throwing the hammer, if it lands on the left side of the field, you're pulling late, & when it lands on the right side of the field, you're pulling early.  (for a right-handed thrower)  Thanks.

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dflanagan Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 9/25/04 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 31	Post Options Post Reply Quote dflanagan Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: assumptions Posted: 1/16/05 at 9:01am
	Are these assumptions valid? WFD & stone require explosive hip/quad strength, coupled with near-isometric type strength in the obliques, thus necessitating training movements like front squats/lunges & russian twists/side bends. Caber, sheaf, WOB, require explosive hip & hamstring strength, with near-isometric type strength in the low back, calling for oly lifts, with standard auxilliary movements to address individual weaknesses. When throwing the hammer, if it lands on the left side of the field, you're pulling late, & when it lands on the right side of the field, you're pulling early. (for a right-handed thrower) Thanks.

Wayne Hill Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Postaholic Joined: 8/29/04 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2935	Post Options Post Reply Quote Wayne Hill Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 1/16/05 at 11:38am
	I wouldn't characterize the actions of any of the involved muscles as near-isometric, because they work through a good bit of their ROM in the throws and lifts you mention. For example, I would say that the erectors are used nearly isometrically in a deadlift, but not in a clean, where there's an explosive extension of the ankles/knees/hips/shoulders in the second pull. That quibble aside, your exercise selection isn't bad overall. I now doubt that Russian twists are the best twisting exercise for HG, because they don't really promote the hip action you'd like to see in a spinning throw. The exercise Mark Valenti mentioned a while back (Pickering Twists) sounds really good. I have a feeling this should be done with a lighter weight rather than a heavier one, to ensure that you get the hips into it. I don't know how much you can read into the hammer landing spot. Dan Bourque's hammers don't fly straight, but I wouldn't say he doesn't get all of it. -Wayne
	"We may be small, but we're slow." - MIT Rugby

McSantoli Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 8/30/04 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 281	Post Options Post Reply Quote McSantoli Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 1/27/05 at 6:59am
	WAyne can you explain the Pickering Twists? Be sure to use small words.

Wayne Hill Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Postaholic Joined: 8/29/04 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2935	Post Options Post Reply Quote Wayne Hill Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 1/27/05 at 9:15am
	Direct from Mark Valenti's description of Dec 7: this isnt going to make any sense ,but Ill try...I got Pickering twists from a seminar that Shawn Pickering gave at the NTCA clinic in Nov. I took a punching bag w. a hollow section and filled it w. 5# plates..then strapped two belts around it for handels. I then set up two plyo boxes (chest high) and then simply pull the bag off one box and set it on the other,keep my torso upright and rigid. almost like bailing hay or something...very hard and very functional core training. -Wayne Edited by Wayne Hill
	"We may be small, but we're slow." - MIT Rugby

McSantoli Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 8/30/04 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 281	Post Options Post Reply Quote McSantoli Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 1/27/05 at 9:53am
	Thanks Wayne! I don't know where I would get the heavy bag, but maybe I can try this with one of our tackling dumbies for football. I will try it and let you know.

dan_bourque Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Groupie Joined: 8/30/04 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 84	Post Options Post Reply Quote dan_bourque Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 1/28/05 at 2:34am
	The ball landing on either side of the field has more to do with the low point of the ball rahter than when you are "pulling" For a r-handed thrower you want to make sure that the low-point remains over the right toe. This low point on the right side will enable you to create a differential, allowing torque and better pull on the release. If your low point is in the correct place the ball should land somewhere between the middle of the field and the right sector, preferablly down the right side, which means the low-point was really set up well. As far as the twists go, a seated russian twist, using your ass a fulcrum (some are bigger than others) will have you work some of the Psoas as well as other hip flexor muscles. Walking lunge twists are also good.
	with great power comes great responsibility

Roy Bogue Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Postaholic Joined: 8/30/04 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2918	Post Options Post Reply Quote Roy Bogue Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 1/28/05 at 3:23am
	What does all that mean? Why does Hammer talk always sound like chinese? I train with the legendary Hammer God Bourque and I still blow balls at the Hammer. It's hopeless.
	Donate lately?

dan_bourque Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Groupie Joined: 8/30/04 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 84	Post Options Post Reply Quote dan_bourque Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 1/28/05 at 3:44am
	this will be your year. If I can throw a stone 47 feet with my girly arms then you can throw a heavy 100 feet
	with great power comes great responsibility

G-man Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 8/29/04 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 457	Post Options Post Reply Quote G-man Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 1/28/05 at 5:36am
	""I took a punching bag w. a hollow section and filled it w. 5# plates..then strapped two belts around it for handels. I then set up two plyo boxes (chest high) and then simply pull the bag off one box and set it on the other,keep my torso upright and rigid. almost like bailing hay or something...very hard and very functional core training."" SO this is a static core and upper back exercise? no bending of the legs? Edited by G-man

Sean Betz Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List Postaholic World Champ - ’08 Joined: 9/09/04 Status: Offline Points: 1036	Post Options Post Reply Quote Sean Betz Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 1/28/05 at 10:22am
	I agree with DFlanagan, explosive isometric strength is important, with certain muscle groups. That along with speed-strength, reactive ability, and most importantly starting-strength. If anyone has the time and patience, read the book Supertraining, it will explain alot of this, at least applied to the olympic throwing events. With the caber and weight for height, accelerating strength would be very crucial as well, because of the weight of the implements, in those two events. Bottom line though, none of this matters much, if your technique isn't their.

Wayne Hill Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Postaholic Joined: 8/29/04 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2935	Post Options Post Reply Quote Wayne Hill Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 1/28/05 at 1:22pm
	I wouldn't necessarily recommend Supertraining to a lot of people. As you indicated, time and patience are required, but I'd add that there's a lot of thinking involved. It's best to have a pretty good grounding in weight training and exercise physiology before tackling it: it will make a lot more sense that way. Mel's Facts and Fallacies of Fitness, on the other hand, is more accessible and carries many of the same messages. I'd also recommend Dreschler's Encyclopedia of Weightlifting. I've heard great things about Tommy Kono's Weightlifting, Olympic Style, but don't have a copy. -Wayne
	"We may be small, but we're slow." - MIT Rugby

Valenti Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Postaholic Top 10 in the USA - '10, '12 Joined: 8/30/04 Location: Uganda Status: Offline Points: 1477	Post Options Post Reply Quote Valenti Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 1/28/05 at 3:25pm
	Gman the feet stay put and you are doing like a really heavy standing russian twist....with a pause as the bag lands on one box and then is dragged to the other.
	"All you need in this life is a tremendous sex drive and a great ego...brains don't mean sh!t" Capt. Tony Taracino

Skullsplitter Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Postaholic Joined: 8/29/04 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1047	Post Options Post Reply Quote Skullsplitter Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 1/29/05 at 12:47am
	Bourque's real secret (high alcohol tolerance excluded) is that he wired like a cheetah (which is different than El Mucho Gato). Wiring is the key component. And we have to consistently train and rewire ourselves to keep what we have and gain new inroads to neurologic competence.
	"I am the thread, the pupil, and the eye of the needle is my teacher"

Roy Bogue Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Postaholic Joined: 8/30/04 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2918	Post Options Post Reply Quote Roy Bogue Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 1/29/05 at 3:39am
	"Bourque's real secret (high alcohol tolerance excluded)" Doc, You don't know Dan very well. This is hysterical. "Just so everyone knows I'm two deep already." a Classic Bourque quote.
	Donate lately?

dan_bourque Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Groupie Joined: 8/30/04 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 84	Post Options Post Reply Quote dan_bourque Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 2/04/05 at 8:44am
	High alchohol tolerance and Bourque should never go together in the same sentence....especially if there is scotch involved.......I am never going to live the 2 deep thing down Edited by dan_bourque
	with great power comes great responsibility