$ and games

1. Whatever fee an AD receives is generally less than the actual cost of running the athletics.  I can't even bring myself to think about what it's cost me.  Maybe the big games in the Midwest are an exception to this.
   
2. Most games in New England do not charge athletes a fee for competing, but we also don't feed them or offer fancy awards or other perks.
   
3. Bad times, whether it's high gas prices or a rotten economy, puts a squeeze on everybody, including the festivals, ADs, spectators, and athletes.  Athletes will be more selective of games, will tend not to bring family members, and so forth.
   

• Have a large number of athletes that pay a fee to compete and roll out the food, awards, and perks.  Fees help cover the added cost of the games, and large fields hopefully draw extra gate via family members.  Maybe the ADs actually make money.  If the athletes consider the cost excessive, maybe they won't come, but this is a matter of supply and demand.
• Limit athlete enrollments.  This makes it much easier to run from the AD's perspective, and doesn't hurt the spectator's experience one bit:  big games just look like a jumble to spectators.  The AD gets a good competition by picking and choosing among athletes.  The question then becomes whether you lose more gate from family members not coming, or more cost because of fewer athletes.
• Another approach:  only have pros.  They cost more from an initial outlay standpoint, but virtually guarantee a good competition and no hassles for the AD.  If the games have a following, the gate will be there to cover it.

Wow.  The funny thing is that today I spent two to three hours at my paid job doing volunteer work for athletics events for MASA.  This does not happen everyday, but it is not unusual.  Not only do I work on coordinating athletics (strictly volunteer), I am on staff or a judge at several games a year (if there is pay, it rarely covers travel expenses) and a volunteer on the board of directors year round for the Virginia Scottish Games and that may as well be a part time job.

Within MASA we try to get games to admit athletes free of charge, but the festivals are not always willing to go along with it.  There are expenses related to putting on athletics and that is a fact of life.  Some games need the extra help to cover expenses, some get along without it. 

There are t-shirts, medals, trophies, water/Gatorade, meals, tent rentals, portajohn rentals, trash pickup, police/security fees, city/county/state licenses, grounds rental fees, insurance,  PA system rentals, table & chair rentals, etc. 

Corporate sponsors are increasingly difficult to reach.  Crowds are dwindling as Braveheart, Rob Roy and all things Scottish fade from folks memories.  Games want to continue, but more and more they need to pinch pennies.   So, they start charging entry fees.  $30 seems steep, but it is a fact of life to keep things going.

A good number of the games I know of are now run by people who know and care about athletics and are doing their best to keep entry fees down and quality of competition up while giving the thrower the best that they can. 

Alex

I have to agree with the posts above and really with Steve, Al and Larry.  I have been throwing for about 15 years anb the AD for the San Antonio Games for 5 years and like the other AD's out there work my ass off to put them on and have them run smoothly. It costs money to put the games on.  I'm not going to go over the costs as it has already been done. 

As far as having James putting on a clinic for the new throwers...it was because he and I were tired of the newbies asking for advice on how to throw the implement and the rules every five seconds and making the class take forever to complete.  That and here is a world class highland games athlete and one hell of a coach giving advice only to hear someone else tell that person something totally different and wrong!!!  You are damn right I am trying to give something to the athletes that choose to compete. I want them to be successful and have a great time...and yes compete again and again...maybe by helping them be successful they will....again...what the hell is wrong with that???

Perhaps as Steve said you should get involved in the ADing of a game and then you may just understand.

And by the way the group that puts on the San Antonio games is a 501 C(3) non profit...which would make it against the law for me to draw any money above my costs...which means I really work for free.  We sponser several scholorships and groups and are very active in our community.  So I do this for the love of my sport...what do you do??

+1 Bill

I like throwing things, even if i have to pay.

like mom says it is better than doing drugs.

Just a note to add.. one of the best Games i ever went to had no fans only family. 15 $ maybe for hot dogs and water and oh my very first place. and my favorite sword for 1st place.

So no festival, thats ok bring the people who care about you, throw and drink with the people who respect what you do and compete for the love of the games. then go home and brag about it!!!

Thanks to the few people who replied with a constructive, placid post.  Again, the intent was to find out these very things, not have my love for my heritage questioned or be told not to throw etc.  If my post came across with a negative tone I apologize.

So if the throwers only provide 5.4% of the total budget why would you further burden them by continuing to charge?  I’ve done the math, and it doesn’t add up.

Also it’s not just $30.  At the end of the day the total comes to well over $150… I really don’t think I need to go into detail about all the costs involved.  I know I’m not the only person who feels like they are getting kicked when they are down.  Saying things are difficult and that your festival is suffering then turning around and sticking it to the “athletes” as if things are somehow easier on them is simply amiss.  Paying a $10-$15 registration fee so the games have peace of mind that I will show up is one thing, but passing along the cost of the games to the throwers absolutely makes no sense.

Wayne, I think for the most part the games in my area are shooting for the 1^st of the models in your post.  Jeremy McBain is the exception as he organizes and runs a few games without outside funding and doesn’t charge a cent to throw.  I personally agree with his (and the games’ you mentioned in New England) approach of lowering cost instead of forcing throwers to pay.  I’ve only been throwing for 7 years so I don’t know all the “ins and outs” of the games, but from a pure throwers perspective all the extra perks really don’t make the games worth an extra $30 on top of everything else.

Once again, this thread was a continuation of the ideas and posts from the “cancelled games” thread, I’m not just bitching about spending money.  It just seems from my point of view that passing the cost of the games onto the throwers should be the very last resort.  Keeping the competitor attendance high should really be the highest priority.

Oh, and to quote myself… “If my post came across with a negative tone I apologize.”  I’m just stating my view and asking for clarification, nothing more.  So to say it bluntly, if you want to vent or flame someone, take your issues elsewhere.

I don't think anyone in their right mind means to say that AD's shouldn't be paid for their time or that they don't work hard.  Without them there are no games.  I think they should receive some compensation for their effort and dedication. 

On the flip side, it sucks to work your ass off, show up to entertain and pay a gate fee.  It just does!  I truly beleive that most AD's would remove the fee if it were economically possible, but it isn't.  There are games out there that charge every single person on the grounds, believe it or not.  Look at the list of games that have tanked.  I'm just glad we still have places left to throw!!! 

Jody,

It would be easier to understand if you had a balance sheet in front of you.  It is amazing, AMAZING how costs add up.  I was in the ituation where we had a SPONSER and they were fairly generous.  We had NO frills, no extras and only broke even.  No joke.  We sat there looking at the spreadsheet and it was EASY to see where the money went.  Also, though depressing (we wanted a little windfall for future events), it was easily explainable to sponsors and community leaders. 

Where can you spend a whole Saturday doing something you enjoy for 30 bucks?  Golf?  Softball?  Basketball or soccer or flag football leagues?  These are all as, if not more, expensive than the games.  Sheesh, a movie, popcorn and treats for 2 is starting to approach that.

If one is good enough to be a pro, doors open.  Just like for any Pro athlete  in other sports you aren't paying to compete.  But us Am's, in any sport, need to decide how to prioritize.  And budget.

If non-ADs have workable sponsorship ideas, please share.  This stuff is tricky to fund.

Josh

I recall when I first started my games.  The entry fee of, I think, $20 was a significant portion of my budget.  My goal then was to keep getting more sponsorship to eventually make it free to the athletes.  Then, talking with other AD's such as Dan DeWelt, Steve Scott, Al Myers, Greg Bradshaw, guys who had run literally dozens of big time games the message was basically the same:  The entry is earnest money towards showing up. 

Over the years, I've come to the realization that you really can't please everyone so make sure you please yourself or you will soon hate what you are doing and won't do it anymore.  I charge an entry for my games, and it does play a direct roll in what extra perks the athletes get and I always spend more than I take in when you factor in all costs which DOES NOT include the hundreds of hours I've spent on these things.  So, you'll have to pardon me when I get a little chaffed when an athlete doesn't want to cough up $20 or $30 bucks for an entry fee.  If that's what it's all about, then go pro or find something else to do.  I do this because I love it and the day I stop loving it I'll quit and do something else.  If a wealthy donor tossed a sack of cash my way, my life as an AD would be easier, but not any more or less satisfying than it is now. That's NOT why I do this. As an AD, my favorite thing is to see an athlete smile because they got a PR or won an event, or won a B class for the first time ever or they go and show their 5 year old son the cool sword they just won and the kid looks at their Dad like he's the baddest ass on the planet.  That ought to be worth a few extra bucks to somebody.  That's why I do it.  This is not intended to slam anyone who has expressed an different opinion, just a chance to express mine.  Thanks, Thom

Well, that and going to Pancake City at the end of the day and eating 8000 calories in fried eggs, bacon, sausage, bisquits and gravy, pancakes, tenderloins, hashbrowns, more pancakes, coffee, ham (slabs, not slices), texas toast.....

JWC III wrote: I recall when I first started my games.  The entry fee of, I think, $20 was a significant portion of my budget.  My goal then was to keep getting more sponsorship to eventually make it free to the athletes.  Then, talking with other AD's such as Dan DeWelt, Steve Scott, Al Myers, Greg Bradshaw, guys who had run literally dozens of big time games the message was basically the same:  The entry is earnest money towards showing up.  Over the years, I've come to the realization that you really can't please everyone so make sure you please yourself or you will soon hate what you are doing and won't do it anymore.  I charge an entry for my games, and it does play a direct roll in what extra perks the athletes get and I always spend more than I take in when you factor in all costs which DOES NOT include the hundreds of hours I've spent on these things.  So, you'll have to pardon me when I get a little chaffed when an athlete doesn't want to cough up $20 or $30 bucks for an entry fee.  If that's what it's all about, then go pro or find something else to do.  I do this because I love it and the day I stop loving it I'll quit and do something else.  If a wealthy donor tossed a sack of cash my way, my life as an AD would be easier, but not any more or less satisfying than it is now. That's NOT why I do this. As an AD, my favorite thing is to see an athlete smile because they got a PR or won an event, or won a B class for the first time ever or they go and show their 5 year old son the cool sword they just won and the kid looks at their Dad like he's the baddest ass on the planet.  That ought to be worth a few extra bucks to somebody.  That's why I do it.  This is not intended to slam anyone who has expressed an different opinion, just a chance to express mine.  Thanks, Thom Well, that and going to Pancake City at the end of the day and eating 8000 calories in fried eggs, bacon, sausage, bisquits and gravy, pancakes, tenderloins, hashbrowns, more pancakes, coffee, ham (slabs, not slices), texas toast.....

Damn it JWC now I am starving!  I am trying to get under 200 for that masters division and posts like yours aren't helping!!!

Oh, and Brian, did I mention that at Pancake City the Tenderloins are so big that you can fold it in half and it's still twice as big as the bun....then I order a side of gravy to dip my sandwich in and to pour over the hashbrowns, maybe some salsa, too and.....HAHAHAHA sorry, buddy.  

I seem to recall this guy in KC one time that was pretty dang happy about a comeback win in the lightweight nationals.