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TRAINING LOG:Alan Hebert

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Topic: TRAINING LOG:Alan Hebert
Posted By: Alan H
Subject: TRAINING LOG:Alan Hebert
Date Posted: 1/25/10 at 2:27pm
Intro:  Nor Cal 54 year old Master.  Bald. Devastating good looks.  Weight, about 280, maybe a bit more if I bought Kettle Chips at the market this week. Farted around in the gym semi-regularly during the 2008-2009 off-season, but hasn't spent any serious gym time in years and years and ...years. I have no clue how to do most Olympic lifts.  None. Zero.  I have some stenosis (narrowing of a spinal nerve foramen in L4)  in my lower back that acts up when I do stuff like squats and dumbell core crushers.   Dead lifts and good mornings are totally out of the question. I screwed myself up royally for Pleasanton last year by doing Good Mornings for a couple of weeks before those Games.

All you young bucks who push wads more weight than I do can just get your giggling over with NOW.   Honest truth is that I have never worked so hard in the gym as I have since the middle of October.  I may be far, far behind a whole lot of you guys but I can feel the difference.

OK, time to play catch-up.  I only started logging a few weeks ago.  I gotta C&P my stuff over here from XMarks the Scot, which is where I've been keeping it.


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Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training



Replies:
Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 1/25/10 at 2:39pm
I spent the second half of October and  all of November doing a lot of whole-body weights work, with emphasis on core.  While I don't have records of exactly what I did, here are things I'd do on a typical day.  I might do 2/3rds of the exercises that I listed here on a given day..

Box Jumps...30 inch box, sometimes from seated, sometimes from standing, sometimes with ten pound dumbells in my hands.

Core Crushers on the Roman Chair.... I got these from Josh Grace. Basically I sit on a very inclined Roman Chair (about 45 degrees) facing upwards. Then I do slow hammer winds, *very* slow hammer winds with a 8 - 10 pound medicine ball in my hands.  I did these a LOT at the beginning.

sit-ups on incline board...I started out with no weight, steepest setting  I could do ten.

hanging leg lifts...usually do either these or the sit-ups, not both  on the same day.

Push-ups....  When I started this, I couldn't do 20. I'm serious, I could do about a dozen, then had to stop and rest and then do eight more "girl" push-ups.

curls...  8 x 65 pounds, maybe two sets of that with a curl bar, not straight bars..

triceps extensions using a high cable-pulley...

upright rows...8 x 50 pounds, something like that.

dumbell squats with a latex ball between my back and the wall...two sets of 10 with 30 pounds in each hand.  I  screwed up my knee  by straining the distal tendon of the gracilis muscle, winter of  2008 and spent the first half of the season in a stiff neoprene brace. I don't want to do that again.

leg presses...200 pounds x 10 or 15

bench rows... something like 10 - 12 x 50 pounds or so.

That's not an exact record, but it gives you an idea. My whole idea was to build a base from which to start.


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Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 1/25/10 at 2:44pm
Somewhere along the line a nice girl in the gym was doing incline dumbell presses with 45 pounds and pounding them out. I tried them. I could do about eight with 45 pounds.  I was embarrassed and humiliated, so I decided to do them as well.

I also did reverse dumbell flys, now and then, usually with 20 pounds and lots of reps.  I did sitting flys on a machine, which has nifty numbers printed on the stack of weights. Who knows whether those numbers have any relationship to reality, but I was doing two sets 8 with 100  pounds.

Mike Macellari got me doing Sumo Dead Lift High Pulls, and try to do 'em fast and I could do 2 sets of 8 at 75 pounds and it'd kill me. 


-------------
Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: thegnome
Date Posted: 1/25/10 at 2:46pm
Welcome on board!! 

-------------
Andrew G

Vada a bordo CAZZO!!!!


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 1/25/10 at 2:46pm
December 19th, 2009: TOTAL BURNOUT DAY, run myself down to nothing...

Box jumps: 10 on the 30-inch box

standing lunges, push off the bosu with 20 pounds each hand/40 overall...five per leg as per Amazon Goddess Wendy's instructions.

back squats: 150 pounds, 15 reps

dumbell snatches: 5 each arm X 70 pounds, 3 each arm x 75 pounds, 1 each arm, 80 pounds

sit-ups: 20 in the incline board, steepest setting, no weight.

Lateral pulls on Roman Chair: 15 each side, 35 pounds

Russian twists: on incline board, 8 lb medicine ball, 2 sets of 10

bar dips: two sets of ten with a -55 pound "helper" (reduces body weight by 55 lbs)

push ups: feet on 20 inch box, 20 push ups as fast as I can

triceps extensions: cable pulls high to low, with 55 pounds x 20

core crushers: (hammer-throw-like movement on Roman Chair) ten each direction with 12 pound medicine ball.

Plate lifts: put 45 pound plate on the floor...take squat stance above it, grip the edges of the plat and keeping back and arms straight, lift plate over my head....2 x 10 lifts. Major cardio.

Hypers: (lower back work) 15 on Roman chair, no weight

Incline dumbell press: tried to do a few, had to quit when felt like throwing up!


Christmas Break...no weights, but did some deep-knee sandbag dips, squatted my 100 pound caber a few times and had two throwing days.  I ate no fruitcake.


Wednesday January 6th 2010:

Box jumps: only did four, then tried the 36 inch box..FAIL...scraped up my knees pretty good. Hurt like the dickens.  Amazon Goddess came over and clucked at me like a mother hen.

standing lunges, push off the bosu with 20 pounds each hand/50 overall...five per leg, thank you Amazon Goddess Wendy, right knee feels MUCH better and stronger and more stable, already.

back squats: 170 pounds x 6 reps, 190 x 3, 210 x 1

dumbell snatches: 5 each arm X 70 pounds, 3 each arm x 80 pounds, 1 each arm, 90 pounds (FAIL on left arm)

sit-ups: 20 in the incline board, steepest setting, no weight.

Lateral pulls on Roman Chair: 15 each side, 35 pounds

Russian twists: on incline board, 8 lb medicine ball, 2 sets of 10

bench dips: 45 pound plate in my lap, 2 x 15


Friday January 8th 2010

standing lunges, push off the bosu with 25 pounds each hand/50 overall...five per leg, as per Wendy's guidelines.

seated box jumps (jump up to 30 inch box from seated position): 8

back squats: 170 x 5, 190 x 3, 210 x 1, 220 x 1 ...feel like I can do 230, maybe not 245.

incline bench sit-up with ten pound plate on chest, steepest bench setting: 15

side/lateral pulls on the Roman Chair: 15 each side with 40 pounds

curls: two sets of 8 with 90 pounds, bent bar

push-ups: feet on a 20 inch box, do 20 as fast as I can...rest, then 10 more

incline bench barbell presses: 6 x 65...wuuss!! tired from the push ups!

Plate lifts: put 45 pound plate on the floor...take squat stance above it, grip the edges of the plat and keeping back and arms straight, lift plate over my head....8 lifts.

Hypers: (lower back work) 15 on Roman chair with 10 pound plate on chest

bench dips: 45 pound plate in my lap, 15 dips, out of gas!

***************

Need to do....

Sumo dead lift high pulls again, but waiting for sore tendon in right arm/elbow to normal out...

Windmills

bench rows....move up to 10 x 90 pounds.

inclined barbell presses, try to get up to : 6 x 70, 3 x 80, 1 x 90

FAST 90-100 pound dumbell-bench squats...explode off the floor!

-------------
Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 1/25/10 at 2:50pm
01-11-2010, 11:00 AM
http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/member.php?u=1342 -

 

Hmph....I've done something to a deep gluteal muscle, left side. I think I did the damage two weeks ago during Winter Break, doing a throwing form workout with the 25 pound Pataki powerball. These squats aren't helping. So I think this week is an upper body week, and I'll do some lighter weight-fast movement lower body stuff. I'm mildly grumpy about it, since I'm really gunning for that 300 pound squat, but a week of moving lighter weights, fast, isn't going to hurt me any.

(NOTE TO SELF:  muscle hurts because you're squashing your L4 disk down on the spinal nerve, you stupid shit.)


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Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 1/25/10 at 2:53pm
1-11-10

Being the junkie that I am, I got into the gym today and just couldn't NOT squat. The tendon in right elbow is feeling good, so next week I'll start the sumo dead lift high pulls again.

So here's todays workout.

Box Jumps: 8 x up to the 30 inch box

Bosu Lunges: do a forward lunge onto the bosu, stretch, go deep, then push off HARD, backwards... 6 each leg with 50 pounds. 

Back Squats: 6 x 190, 3 x 210, 1 x 230 ... I *might* have enough in me to do two @ 230, but no more than that. I'm gonna stay here for 2 weeks before I bump it up to 250.

Dumbell Snatch: felt good after the squats so I decided to go big weights, straight off the bat...90 pounds, 3x each arm for total of 6

Hanging leg lifts...haven't done them for a while so I did 10. That felt easy and my legs were still straight so what the heck, did 5 more. 15

Lat pulls on the Roman Chair...15 each side with 40 pounds

Core Crushers: 10- each way with with 8 lb medicine ball

Curls: today was the day to move up to 100 pounds and it went OK...hard, but OK. 8 x100, 6 x 100

Dumbell Press: cut loose...8 x 65, 4 x 75, 3 x 80...just BARELY locked out that last 80, but I got it.
http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=841355" name="vB::QuickEdit::841355 -


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Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 1/25/10 at 2:55pm
Originally posted by thegnome thegnome wrote:

Welcome on board!! 


Thanks!  I don't know if this is any contribution, but it can't hurt, and maybe my performance will amuse the other 50-59's...


-------------
Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 1/25/10 at 2:58pm
1-13-10

Today was a core and upper body day, I don't want to hammer my legs with no recovery time.


***sit-ups, on the incline board with ten pound plate on my chest...15


**bench rows...I've been thinking about moving up to 100 pounds, so I tried it today. I got 8 x 100 on the right hand and 6 x 100 on the left hand. I've got the mojo in the shoulders and trunk to pull the weight, I just can't quite hold on to the dumbells. 100 pounds is pretty darned heavy. So I think I'll go back down to 90 for a while

**curls... 100 x 8, 100 x 6

**Hanging leg lifts... 15, then later I was recruiting more throwers in the gym so I'd had a break, so I did 12 more because they build character

**incline dumbell press: 60 x 8, 70 x 6...and then I couldn't jerk the 80's up into position *grrrr* probably haven't completely recovered from the last workout went I went 3 x 80, so I went and did pushups... actually it's probably 'cause I'm short on sleep.

**push-ups, hands on wobble boards, feet on 20 inch box x 15

**lateral pulls on the Roman Chair: 15 each side with 40 pounds

**upright rows...haven't done these in forever, and I'm wary of hurting the ulnar tendon in my right elbow again, so I just did 8 x 80

** bench dips....2 x 15 with 50 pound dumbell in my lap...moved up from 45 pounds!

** core crushers....10 each direction with 8 pound medicine ball

** sitting flys on the machine. The weight on the machine is arbitrary, but I did 8 x 160 and then ALLLLLmost closed off 7 x 175, couldn't **quite** close off #7.  I made a lot of noise though.



-------------
Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 1/25/10 at 2:59pm
1-13-10

.....and I just climbed 10 flights of stairs to work out a few kinks in that sore muscle in my butt....


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Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 1/25/10 at 3:00pm
1-14-10

Bad, bad development. I've got some loss of strength and that telltale ache in my left quad. Nuts are feeling "funny".  This means that the narrowing of the foramen in L4 is squeezing on the spinal nerve that innervates the quads. It's almost certainly aggravated by my current lifting regime. Looks like 10 - 14 days off from the squats, for me. That puts my goal of 300 pound squat by the end of Feb in doubt, which is too bad. Then again, I got this far, which is a big improvement. It just means I'll be working on core and upper body for a couple of weeks.


-------------
Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 1/25/10 at 3:02pm
1-15-10

Well, it's the next morning. After taking it easy yesterday, Advil, a WHOLE lot of rolling around on a foam roller, and nine hours of sack time, I've got 100% strength back in the quads and no ache. However, the cramping muscle in my left, upper glutes still aches, and I have intermittent "funny sensations" in my toes. I need to take care of this.

I've been in similar situations before, and I'll heal up fine if I just use my head. So the next couple of weeks workouts will be working on other things.
http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=842552" name="vB::QuickEdit::842552 -


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Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 1/25/10 at 3:04pm
Todays "save the back/butt" workout....10/15/2010


bosu lunges: lung forward onto a bosu...go low, stretch, then push off hard, back off the bosu. 50 pounds, 5 each leg, love me some Amazon Goddess Wendy.

hanging leg raises: 15 x, rest...10x

dumbell curls: (I NEVER do these, too much muscle isolation) 40 x 8 each arm...

incline dumbell press: 65 x 8, 75 x 5, 80 x 1...just *barely* got that last one.  Whassup, I did 3 reps of 80 last week. sheesh.

Hypers: go super slow and easy, no weight... 15

bench dips: 55 pound dumbell in my lap...15x, 10x

triceps cable pull downs: 52 pounds, 8x, 8x

lat pulls on the Roman Chair: light weight, go easy 25 pounds 13 pulls each side

upright rows: move the weight as fast as I can...80 x 8, 90 x 6

Seated Flys on the machine: "175 pound"...x8, x7

-------------
Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 1/25/10 at 3:06pm
1-20-10

Well I've had four days completely off from the gym. I'm short on sleep and I've been eating like a moron the last two days, but I made myself go in, today, despite the weather.  I felt like crap.  My lower back is improved, though yesterday wasn't so great. It feels fine, now, let's see how it goes in 3-4-5 hours.

Box jumps....from seated position, 8 jumps up to 30-inch box.

Bosu Lunges: do a forward lunge onto the bosu, stretch, go deep, then push off HARD, backwards... 6 each leg with 50 pounds

Back Squats: 2 sets, 6 x 150 ..take it easy.

situps: 15 with a ten pound plate on my chest, incline board on steepest setting

barbell curls: 100 pounds x 8, 100 pounds x 6...

Hypers on the Roman Chair: go super slow and easy, no weight... 15

incline dumbell press: 60 x 8, 70 x 6, and I gave up, as I barely could jerk the 70's into position.

push-ups, hands on wobble boards, feet on 20 inch box x 15


lat pulls on the Roman Chair: 40 pounds, 13 pulls each side

bar dips: 8x, rest, 6x with a 50 pounds "helper"

...and that was all I could handle, today.


-------------
Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 1/25/10 at 3:07pm
1-22-10

Felt better today, but there's still a bit of compression in my lower back. It had gotten better, now it's back, again. I squatted today, but I won't, next week.  MORON.

Bosu Lunges and push-back: 5 x 60 pounds each leg

Back Squats: 2 x 6 x 170

dumbell snatch:5 x 80, each arm

incline bench situps: 10 pound weight 15 situps

incline dumbell press: 8 x 60, 6 x 70, 1 x 80...time to move up from the 60's

hypers: 15, slow and easy, no weight

Windmills (finally): 10 x 20 pounds, 8 x 25 pounds

seated/upright flys: 8 x 175, 7 x 175

bench dips: 2 x 15 with a 50 pound dumbell on my lap


-------------
Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 1/25/10 at 3:15pm
I had a little talk with Wendy the Amazon Goddess  and she suggests that maybe part of my issue with the lower back might be remedied by working on hip flexibility and strength. So for the next couple of weeks I'm going to just do leg presses and hip adductor/abductor work and forget the squats....and I MEAN IT this time.

I'll get back to the squats, first week in February if all goes well. I still want to  squat 300 by the end of Feb, but might have to come to grips with not being able to do that. Certainly from the beginning of March, on to early April I will need to do more stuff like those sumo dead lift high pulls and dumbell snatches.  Move the weight fast...

I wish I could do Bert Sorin's Hungarian Core Blasters but every time I try 'em, even with just 40-50 pounds, my back just kills me. OK, so...

todays work....

Box Jumps...8 x 30 inch box

bosu lunges and push-back...6x each leg, 60 lbs.  I think I can start lunging onto the floor, don't need the bosu any more.  My right knee feels fine.  On the other hand, I stay low and stretch on the bosu and it's a bitch to stay balanced on the stupid ball and that's GOOD. I'll think about it.

hanging leg lifts....2 x 15

Russian twists on incline board....8lb ball, x8, x6 WIMP!  WUUUUSS.

curls...8 x 100, 6 x 100

incline dumbell press: moved up today, no 60's!   8 x 70, 6 x 70...I made a lot of noise on the last two, and the pretty lady with the ponytail on the bench next to me looked at me funny. Oh, well...probably my debonair manner has charmed her, and she's rendered speechless by desire.

lateral pulls on the roman chair.... 15 x 40 pounds, each side.  I think I need to move up to 45, now.

hammer-wind core crushers.... ten each side with 8 lb medicine ball

hip flexors on the fancy-pants machine, adduct and abduct with "120 pounds" x 8 each side..WOW, really feel 'em~  This is good.  Love me some Amazon Goddess Wendy.

leg press on the machine.... 245 x 15, need to go up on this if I'm not squatting

**long rest, had a high heart rate that didn't want to calm down***

triceps pull-down... 2 sets 10 x 55

upright rows... 8 x 70, 8 x 80
  http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=845988" name="vB::QuickEdit::845988 -

-------------
Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 1/25/10 at 3:19pm
Seven hours after workout...lower back feels good. YES.

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Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 1/25/10 at 4:10pm
BTW, I'd like to thank Greg Hadley for posting his video's and log which are a real inspiration... Ditto to Grasshopper and Duncan MacAllum.

Of course, you all blow me out of the water in both straight out strength and lifting technique (well, haven't seen Duncan lift yet, but I bet....).   I have to remember that you are all young and virile, while I must rely on wisdom, charm,  good looks, and treachery but  *whatever*.


-------------
Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: Duncan McCallum
Date Posted: 1/26/10 at 12:35am

"BTW, I'd like to thank Greg Hadley for posting his video's and log which are a real inspiration... Ditto to Grasshopper and Duncan MacAllum.

Of course, you all blow me out of the water in both straight out strength and lifting technique (well, haven't seen Duncan lift yet, but I bet....).   I have to remember that you are all young and virile, while I must rely on wisdom, charm,  good looks, and treachery but  *whatever*."

Alan, think nothing of it.  You all are examples to me...I am not an example to follow.  Not yet anyway.  Me lifting is not anything anyone wants to see; it's a lot of sweat, grunting, and Taylor Swift blaring from my Bedazzled iPod.

As far as being young and virile...to quote Mike Baab:

"Duncan, old age and treachery will beat talent and ability any day."

and

"Duncan, I'd rather be lucky than good."

Words to live by!  Keep lifting hard Alan.  Just stay at it.  Someone else made the weights...you made yourself.



-------------
The man in the arena.


Posted By: Mountain Man
Date Posted: 1/26/10 at 7:25am
I have to say Alan after reading your log, for someone who hasn't been in the gym in quite a while, you are certainly making up for lost time....this is a LOT of work! Good for you.

-------------
Robin Walker

"The danger in life is not to set a goal too high and never reach it, but to set a goal too low and reach it."
GSP quoting Michaelangelo


Posted By: J. Baty
Date Posted: 1/26/10 at 9:25am
Nice workout for a youngster. Glad to see you are improving. Its always hard to get stronger when you can't work your legs the way you want to and haven't lifted in a while. And having a little age on you its a little tougher but it can be done when you find out exactly what works for your body. I also have a bad back and don't do heavy squats. Leg Presses work better for me and high reps. Keep up the good work.

-------------
J.Baty


Posted By: Quint T Melius
Date Posted: 1/27/10 at 1:26pm
Alan, I love that variety brother I should read through that and get some ideas,  maybe I would not look like a guy who lifts like a bodybuilder and eats like a powerlifter on a bulking binge.

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If you don't have time to do it right, when are you going to have time to do it over?


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 1/28/10 at 10:06am
Took the day off, yesterday. I've been short on sleep and was really hurting yesterday. Much better, today...

1-28-2010

Box jumps:  8, up to 30-inch box

bosu lunges and push back:  40 pounds each hand (moved up, today) x 6 each leg

lat pullson roman Chair:  moved up today...15 each side, 50 pounds

hanging leg lifts:  15

"Supermans":  lie on a mat, stomach down, arms out in front. Now raise arms and legs off the mat so that you balance on your stomach...hold position for a slow five-count....did ten of 'em.

hip adductor/abductor/rotation machine:  2 x 10 adduct and abduct each leg x 135 pounds printed on the stack

leg press:  2 x 10 x 290 (as printed on the stack)

Russian twists on the incline board 2 x 10 (5  each  way) with 10 ll ball

push ups:  20 with feet on 20 inch box, hands on wobble boards

dumbell snatch:  6 x 80 right arm, 4 x 80 left arm

seated flys:  moved up to "195" printed on the stack...  2 x 6

-------------
Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 1/28/10 at 10:14am
Originally posted by Quint T Melius Quint T Melius wrote:

Alan, I love that variety brother I should read through that and get some ideas,  maybe I would not look like a guy who lifts like a bodybuilder and eats like a powerlifter on a bulking binge.


Well, I don't really know how to do the Olympic lifts right, and there's no place in my weight room to do that stuff.  A third of our gym is stationary bicycles and walking machines.  Which reminds me, I really should get on the rowing machine, now and then.

I try to mix it up, because throwing is whole-body. I desperately need to just plain get stronger all-over.  Most of the guys I throw against are significantly stronger than I am.  That program will end at the end of February, and for March I'm moving light weights FAST and throwing once a week....and then I start throwing twice a week in April and don't lift much at all through the rest of the season. 


-------------
Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 1/28/10 at 12:48pm
I have a good feeling about this hip adductor/abductor stuff, teamed up with the leg presses.  I'm feeling it, but there's essentially no discomfort.

Two weeks of this and I'll give the squats a shot again....


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Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: Duncan McCallum
Date Posted: 1/29/10 at 12:55am

Keep us posted on the squat love-affair!

Good work Alan!  Stretch WELL before you hit them!



-------------
The man in the arena.


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 1/29/10 at 9:31am
1-29-2010

Felt good today, little twinge in my right knee from pushing a big stack on the leg press yesterday, but it'll get lots of rest this weekend so I'm not worried. Back feels good.  Easy day today as I had to cut out early to get to a work meeting.

bosu lunges and push back;   80 pounds,  6 x each leg

hip adductor/abductor on the machine;  2 x 10 each leg @ "135 lbs" ...done with week #1 of this, another week to go and back to the squats

hanging  leg lifts;  2 x 15

dumbell snatch;  tried 100 pounds just for fun...FAIL!  Pretty funny...so went  85 pounds, 4 x each hand

incline dumbell press:  2 x 6 x 70, managed to crank one up at 80 pounds

bench rows; 2 x 6 each arm @ 80 lbs

hammer wind core crushers on the Roman Chair;   10 each way with 10 lb medicine ball

-------------
Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 1/29/10 at 9:35am
Originally posted by Duncan McCallum Duncan McCallum wrote:

Keep us posted on the squat love-affair!

Good work Alan!  Stretch WELL before you hit them!



So, being the dirty old man that I am...and someday, Duncan, you too can be a dirty old man.....

I was eyeing a svelte lovely in the weight room as she stretched and it occurred to me that it had been since forever that I stretched my quads.  Ha ha. So I tried. Ha ha.  Well, they didn't go *TWANNNNGGGG* but they sure felt as tight as a  snare drum head.  So I took about five minutes and stretched those things out. I might be needing to do some more of that.

.......stretching out the quads, not eyeing the svelte lovelies. OK, well maybe both.

1-29-2010

Felt good today, little twinge in my right knee from pushing a big stack on the leg press yesterday, but it'll get lots of rest this weekend so I'm not worried. Back feels good.  Easy day today as I had to cut out early to get to a work meeting.

bosu lunges and push back;   80 pounds,  6 x each leg

hip adductor/abductor on the machine;  2 x 10 each leg @ "135 lbs" ...done with week #1 of this, another week to go and back to the squats

hanging  leg lifts;  2 x 15

dumbell snatch;  tried 100 pounds just for fun...FAIL!  Pretty funny...so went  85 pounds, 4 x each hand

incline dumbell press:  2 x 6 x 70, managed to crank one up at 80 pounds

bench rows; 2 x 6 each arm @ 80 lbs

hammer wind core crushers on the Roman Chair;   10 each way with 10 lb medicine ball


-------------
Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: KiltBill
Date Posted: 1/29/10 at 1:03pm
Alan, I love reading your posts. I get a lot of good ideas from your
workouts as well as enjoy the wit. Thanks for posting.
Bill Gray


Posted By: J. Baty
Date Posted: 1/30/10 at 4:19am
Allan, Will you turn 55 before Denver so you can come play with us older guys?

-------------
J.Baty


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 1/30/10 at 4:35pm
Originally posted by J. Baty J. Baty wrote:

Allan, Will you turn 55 before Denver so you can come play with us older guys?


Nope, I'll still be a youngster of 54!

Today was a bizarre day...long story... I was on my feet a lot, but I hopped on the bicycle for a while. OH MY GOD....The first 400 feet, I felt muscles I'd forgotten I had. I used to ride all the time, now hardly ever.

So I did some hill charges...basically, find a big hill, decide how long you're going to go all-out up the hill, and go. Coast back down, catch breath, do it again. All up, I did seven, three-minute charges and let me tell you, I was whacked during the last one. That wasn't much of a "charge".


-------------
Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: KiltBill
Date Posted: 1/31/10 at 3:46am

Alan, you got me pulling out my old Bianche and trying to find a used trainer to set up on my porch. In my skinny 30's I used to do triathalons and marathons. Last marathon was in 98. I'm to big to run but cycling might just fill the void. Thanks.

Bill Gray



Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 1/31/10 at 6:05pm
1-31-2010

Throws day, today.  I met up with new thrower, Bert MacBride and we went at it for about two hours.  Stones, LWFD, Light Hammer and Weight over the bar.  Afterwards, I discovered that I'd locked my keys in car. Thus, the evening finished off with a 45 minute bike ride on mostly level ground.

I am SORE in the hips.  I might do some more of this mountain bike hill charges.

Bill, I raced in college, though I wasn't any good. I have NEVER been in such aerobic condition as when I was riding 20 miles a day and 40-60 on weekends.


-------------
Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 2/02/10 at 12:38pm
2/2/2010

bosu lunges and push-back...5x 80 pounds, each leg

hip abduct, adduct... 10 x 135, 10 x 150

sit up:  tired them with a 25 pound plate on my chest today. did 10

lat pulls on Roman chair...15 each side x 55 pounds'

incline dumbell press... 8 x 70, 2 x 80

bench rows/pulls (single arm):  6 x 90, 6 x 90 each arm

curls ... 6 x 100, 6 x 100

upright rows ...  6 x 90, 6 x 90

seated flys:  6 x 190, 5 x 190

"face pulls":  15 x 48 pounds

triceps pull -downs ... 15 x 58

-------------
Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 2/03/10 at 10:40am
2/3/2010

Some lower body work, today and still working on strengthening the hip rotators, abduct/adductors as well as lower back.

Bosu lunges and push back: 6 x 80 pounds, each leg. I'd do more but they take a long time and I can barely hold on to the 40 pound dumbells for the whole time!

dumbell snatches: some nasty stuff has come down in my life and I'm mad about it so I thought I'd channel some of that anger into these snatches. I had a rather extended conversation with the dumbell before I took ahold of it. They nice young fellow doing curls at the bench looked at me kinda funny, but I don't care because I did 5 x 90 pounds with the right hand and 3 x 90 pounds with the left hand and that is a LOT more weight to throw around than I ever have, before.

hammer wind core crushers on the roman chair: 10 each way with 8 lb medicine ball

sit ups: I've been thinking that I want to add more weight, so I grabbed the 25 pound plate today, told myself that I'd do more today than I did yesterday, and cranked out 13 good situps on the incline board at the steepest setting.

hip adduct/abduct: 2 x 10 x 150 pounds "on the stack"

supermans (thanks Chirolifter)...10 of 'em, hold for ten seconds.

pushups: feet on t 20 inch box, hands on wobble boards, 20 pushups, as fast as I can.

dumbell lifts...I dont know what to call these, but you put a dumbell on the floor, take a squat stance above it, grip the thing equally with both hands, and then smoothly, with arms straight, stand and lift the thing over your head. Amazon Goddess Wendy prescribed them and when Wendy speaks, I listen.... 2 x 10 x 55 pounds

Lower back feels pretty good...little bit sore in that one muscle in the left upper glute. Right distal gracilis tendon is sore-ish but not bad. It seems to be recovering from shoving around that big stack I pushed in the leg lifts last week. One more day of hip adductor/abductor work and I go back to trying the squats.

I might have to give up on the 300 pound squat goal, and focus instead on moving 200 pounds, *fast*. We'll see how it goes.

-------------
Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 2/06/10 at 3:43pm
Missed my workout on Friday, some stuff came up at work and I couldn't get away. So I went in, today. Man oh man, but the place was *packed*.  Today is the last day for "hip strengthening" prior to starting up squats again.

2/6/2010

Bosu lunges:  I just could NOT get balanced today, and the two 40 lb dumbells just wore out my forearms and I couldn't hold on to them....so  4 each leg, 80 lbs.

sit ups: incline board, steepest setting, 25 pound plate on chest x 14 ...which is one more than LAST time

Lat pulls on the Roman Chair:  15 x 55 pounds each side.

dumbell snatches  85 pounds x 9...5 right hand, 4 left hand, plus two near "misses" that pissed me off.

Hip adduct/abduct:   2 x 10 x 150 pounds "on the stack" each leg

supermans:  10 x 10 second hold

incline dumbell press:  8 x 70, 6 x 70

leg press: 2 x 10 x 290 "on the stack"

upright rows:  2 x 8 x 80

tricep cable pulldowns:  2 x 10 x 70 pounds

seated flys:  8 x 190, 6 x 190 "on the stack"


-------------
Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 2/06/10 at 3:47pm
I felt a little bit light-headed on the way home after this workout, so pulled over and tilted the seat back until I felt OK. Might have overdone a little bit.

-------------
Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: Wayne Hill
Date Posted: 2/07/10 at 1:33am
Hmm:
  1. Check your heart rate.  Feeling woozy during or after working out is often related to a high heart rate.  I actually wore a heart rate monitor while working out with weights for more than a year after realizing this.  I'd wait for my HR to come back down before doing my next set.  Finally, I got it all figured out well enough that I no longer needed it.
  2. How are you feeling in general?  You might be coming down with something.


-------------
"We may be small, but we're slow." - MIT Rugby


Posted By: KiltBill
Date Posted: 2/07/10 at 2:06am
Alan, how are you feeling today? Back when I was a runner I checked my resting heart rate each morning before getting out of bed, it let me know when to back off.


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 2/07/10 at 1:11pm
Originally posted by KiltBill KiltBill wrote:

Alan, how are you feeling today? Back when I was a runner I checked my resting heart rate each morning before getting out of bed, it let me know when to back off.


Just fine, today.  No worries.

Wayne, when I feel my heart rate get well up  into the top of the training range, I take a little break...walk around the gym, get a little drink of water, stare at the pretty girls for a few minutes until it comes down.


-------------
Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: thegnome
Date Posted: 2/07/10 at 1:15pm
If you stare at the pretty girls too long they arrest you.

-------------
Andrew G

Vada a bordo CAZZO!!!!


Posted By: West
Date Posted: 2/07/10 at 2:09pm
...and your heart rate probably goes up a bit too.

-------------
Drink to the fame of it, honor the name of it, The Tartan.


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 2/08/10 at 11:26am
Well, no squats for me. Not if I want to start the season with my right knee NOT in a re-inforcing brace.  Right knee hurts, gracilis tendon is inflamed and painful, and it's squeezing on nerves so that I have tingling in my toes.

So much for the squats....OK, so now I have to be thinking about what else I can do.

This getting old stuff, sucks.


-------------
Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 2/08/10 at 11:28am
Originally posted by thegnome thegnome wrote:

If you stare at the pretty girls too long they arrest you.


Regarding the Pretty Girls.

My sometimes trainer's name is Wendy Fortino.  Do a google search on her and look up the images. She's a very competent trainer, though of course she's not just "My" trainer, she supervises the whole weight room crew.

you might not want to do this when the wife is looking over your shoulder!


-------------
Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 2/11/10 at 9:52am
2/9/2010

Mostly had  goals talk with Amazon Goddess Wendy as outlined in thread on the other forum, but also...

Squats:  6 x 190, 6 x 170

push ups, feet on  20 inch box, as fast as I can...20

I did some other stuff, don't remember exactly what it was, now.

2/10/2010

Went in and did my University SHALA.  My University will give you $150 if you complete a lifestyle and health questionnaire and then go in for a basic analysis.  They prick your finger and get a little blood and work up your blood glucose, HDL/LDL cholesterol.  They take your resting heart rate and blood pressure...and they do a 3-site skin fold caliper body fat analysis.

If you do all that, you get   the $150..yes THEY pay US...and two free training sessions with the personal trainers. I'll request Wendy again, or if I can't get her, one of the trainers here is a semi-retired track coach, so he'll probably have some good ideas for me as well.

Results of the SHALA

blood glucose is great at 88.  My total cholesterol is creeping up, but still entirely fine and my HDL/LDL ratio is really good, as it always has been. However, my resting blood pressure was WAY up, a good 20 points higher than it usually is.  I'm not going to panic over that, it's just one measurement and there's some stuff going on in my life that is pissing me off and stressing me out so it's probably just that....but still. I need to do something about what's causing that unusual spike.

Finally my percent body fat is 38% which is "very overweight" but not quite "obese".  It's all around my gut, he couldn't pinch diddly on my pecs or upper thigh. I could stand to lose 30-40 pounds. I now weigh 292 which is the most I've ever weighed.  No more carnitas at lunch no no more late-night doughnuts!

OK todays workout... 2/11/1020

bosu  lunges and push backs... 5 x 80 lbs each leg.  I'm having a hell of a time balancing on the damn bosu these days.

hip adduct/abduct....2 x 8 x 150 pounds "on the stack" each leg ...I still really "feel" these.

curls  ... backed off a little today, 2 x 8 x 90

bench dips with 55 lb dumbell in my lap... 15, then 12

sit ups with 25 lb plate on chest...13

hammer wind core crushers on the roman chair ... 8 winds each way with 8 lb medicine ball

hypers .... 10 slow and easy with 10 pound plat on chest

Rowing Machine!!!  haven't done this for a long, long time. I thought I'd do ten minutes ! NOT!  5 minutes and my quads FEEL it!

squat and twist...I don't know what to call these.  You shoulder up a barbell and then squat down semi-deep and rise up, twisting to one side. Then you sink back down and "untwist", and then rise up and twist the other way.....2 x 10 x 100 pounds.  This is a bit much, I think I should back off to 90 lbs.  for a few sessions, then come back up.

sitting flys... 2 x 8 x 190 "on the stack" first time I've closed off two sets of 8 at 190 pounds!

**later addition**

Oops, forgot the bench rows... 2 x 8 x 90 pounds, right hand. 8 x 90 then 6 x 90 left hand.



-------------
Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: phatmiked
Date Posted: 2/11/10 at 11:12am
ahem, i think it would really add that extra something to your training log if you were to post a pic of your trainer.  

-------------


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 2/11/10 at 12:20pm
Originally posted by phatmiked phatmiked wrote:

ahem, i think it would really add that extra something to your training log if you were to post a pic of your trainer.  


LOLOL....oh that it *would*....


-------------
Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: Duncan McCallum
Date Posted: 2/11/10 at 12:25pm
AW SNAP!!!  I get it!!!

-------------
The man in the arena.


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 2/11/10 at 12:29pm
Originally posted by Duncan McCallum Duncan McCallum wrote:

AW SNAP!!!  I get it!!!


I had to do it Duncan, so that just for once, you would want to be me, instead of the other way 'round...


-------------
Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 2/15/10 at 1:23pm
OK, missed my Friday workout 'cause of garbage at work, so I've had four days off.  I saw Myles' video of him throwing on FB, so I decided to chuck some stuff too.  So todays workout was a mishmash, but it was good.

Open stone...couple of two-handed warmup heaves backwards and forwards, them "Mikes Toeboard Drills"  and then I don't know what to call 'em so I'm gonna call 'em "Grasshopper drills" because that's where I got 'em from!  Then I did about 6-8 full-on throws... 29 - 31 feet

LWFD... did 5 first turn-release -into-the-ground drills and then 8-10 full two-spin throws.  All were about 42-45 feet, not bad for this early int he season.

Into the weight room...

bosu lunges and push back... 5 x 80 each leg...it's time to move on from this

hip abduct/adduct... 2 x 10 x 150 pounds "on the stack", each leg

back squats... 2 x 6 x 170

incline db press... 8 x70, 6 x 70

hanging leg lifts... 2 x 10 lifts

rowing machine... 7 minutes finish with a 1 minute sprint.


-------------
Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: Silverback
Date Posted: 2/15/10 at 1:28pm
Hope in some small way I motivated you bro.

-------------
Mule

Sportkilt
AST Sport Supplements


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 2/15/10 at 1:34pm
Originally posted by Silverback Silverback wrote:

Hope in some small way I motivated you bro.


Myles, your throwing form was wonderful. It was clear you were going easy, but it was smooooooth, in control...big radius.. VERY nice. I need to look more like that!


-------------
Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 2/15/10 at 1:36pm
The rest of this week...two more lifting sessions will be "heavy" (for me).  I'm going to push a big stack in the leg press (320 lbs)  starting deep and really go for it on the upper body  Wed and Fri. I'll suck at throws practice next Saturday, but that's OK.  Starting next week the  goal is slightly lighter weights and moving them *Fast* through Mid-March when we start up twice a week throwing practice.  Once I start throwing a lot, I'll ease off in the weight room to once a week, "whole body" with a little focus on leg strength.

I wish I'd discovered the multiple benefits of the rowing machine two months ago. Man oh man....really helps my knee!


-------------
Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 2/15/10 at 2:07pm
Ah, it's called an A-drill...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBXn8-eCTHI


-------------
Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 2/17/10 at 9:32am
Starting week two of the low-fat, high protein diet. Let's see if I can't trim down that spare tire around my gut by ten-fifteen pounds.

Today was an upper body & core day

big stretch...quads and gracilis.  Damn, they were tight-tight walking over to the gym. I think I'm gonna go home tonight and roll around on a foam roller on my ass. OoooOOOoo feel so GOOD.   I gots me one tight ass right now.  Gotta bust that up, some.

Lunges, NO BOSU, big pushback, walk backwards....  100 lbs on barbell across shoulders, 8 each leg

sit ups on inclined board, 25 pound plate...did 15 YEAH!

lat pulls on Roman chair:  55 lbs, 15 each side

incline DB press  8 x 70, 3 x 80 **finally** did 3 reps of 80 again

Russian twists on incline board ... 2 x 10 w 12 lb medicine ball

curls  8 x 100, 6 x 100

upright rows  ... 2 x 8 x 80  and that last one *hurt*  to finish it... a good kind of hurt.

bench rows  ...  7 x 90 each arm, 5 x 90 each arm...lousy form, I should back off to 85 pounds and do 'em right.

seated flys ...  8 x 190 "on the stack", 7 x 190 "on the stack"


-------------
Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 2/17/10 at 9:33am
NOTE:  this board is a powerful motivation tool. 

-------------
Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: KiltBill
Date Posted: 2/17/10 at 12:57pm

I love your workouts/comments. OoooOOOoo feel so GOOD.



Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 2/18/10 at 5:38am
Yeah, and it DID, too.  Felt so good I might have to do it again, tonight!

-------------
Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 2/19/10 at 10:58am
OK, this morning I read Myles' response to my post in another forum about finding what works for you and I decided to quit pissing and moaning about squats and try some variations.  So after I did some box jumps I walked over toe the squat rack and piled up a nice, easy 130 pounds. Front Squats....OHKAY, then...NOT.  Arms do not bend that much. OWWWW. Ow.  NOT.

So I says to myself...Alan, try some Zerchers. Forget about the video you just watched of Craig Zerch squatting 650 pounds and load on something light and just do a few.  Well, these went a lot better, though not great.  So I'm going to creatively work around this and quit griping about it.  Hot gym chicks don't like gripey old men.


Today
2/19/2010

box jumps...x 10, 30 inch bos

zerchers squats... 7 x 130, 5 x 130

situps with 25 lb plate  on incline ... 14

hammer wind core crushers.... 10 each direction with 10 lb medicine ball

incline db press..... today was my day to go for it, just blow the doors out and see what I could do with 80 pound dumbells. Answer:  diddly. I pushed them up there twice.  no gas left, burned it all earlier this week.

push-ups, fast, feet on 20 inch box....15.. no gas

triceps cable pull-downs....2 x 10 x 57  on the stack

cable chops (for lateral strength) lo to hi, hi to lo... 10 chops each way, each side, L&R....that's 40 chops  with 53 lbs on the stack

and that's all I had the gas for today. It's been a hard week.


-------------
Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: Silverback
Date Posted: 2/19/10 at 11:27am
I don't hold the bar for fronts like an olympic lifter, I cross my arms like a body builder.  Much easier for me.  Forget Craig or anybody with poundage numbers, your in your own race.  Your improving and that is what counts.  Enjoy and relish that. 

-------------
Mule

Sportkilt
AST Sport Supplements


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 2/19/10 at 3:30pm
Hmmmm.  Crossed arms, eh?  So the bar rests on your chest and deltoids.  I'm liking that. 

Like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j46xhQmgcTU - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j46xhQmgcTU

not sure about the bosu rim under his heels, though...

or this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZHC-4bF3PA - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZHC-4bF3PA

Having the weight low in the zercher  was some serious lower back loading, though I thought about it later and decided that if I got my hips under it better, it would probably help with that.  Also, loading the lower back is OK, that's how it gets stronger, right?  Just got to do it "right".

Obviously I know nothing about any of this or I'd have thought of it myself, but whatever.  I'm gonna try crossing my arms and doing some light-fast  front squats on monday.  NO BOUNCING.

Thanks, Myles!!


-------------
Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: C. Smith
Date Posted: 2/20/10 at 12:25am
I lack the flexibility to rack the bar properly for fronts as well, that's why I use straps.  Lemme know if you don't know what I mean. 

No bosu under the heels. No.

Low back loading is ok.  And the whole point is to get the hips under there, just like we do in our throws.

Bouncing for fronts isn't necessarily a bad thing, done correctly, see every olympic lifter for an example. 


-------------


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 2/20/10 at 6:51pm
Thanks Craig...I'll remember that.

OK, today...three hour throws session today.  I'm pretty ripped up from the past weeks lifting so I went kind of easy, still....man and I exhausted and sore. I need a couple of recovery days.

Today I threw and coached some new(er) guys, though the guy from the NASGA newbie forum didn't show up.

40 minutes of stone drills...toeboard drills, stepover drills, A-line drills

40 minutes of LWFD, single spin, first spin-stop...two spin-stop and full throws.

40 minutes of hammer...YAY...got my new Bobby Dodd 16 pounder out.

and about half an hour of caber.  I managed to pop the 15 foot, 70-pounder over two times out of four even though I was out of gas. OK, so one of those was just *barely* over.


-------------
Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 2/22/10 at 9:56am
THE THREE WEEK PROGRAM TO WORK ON SPEED AND STRENGTH
three weeks of large-fast motions combined with my usual core selection, followed up by a week of rest/vacation to heal up....and then we start regular throws workouts

Today I tried some front squats with crossed arms and 150 pounds.. They're OK, a bit uncomfortable, but that's all right. I think I'm going to mix 'em in now and then  for variety.  Thanks to guys who suggested 'em. 

OK.... Today's party with Lady Gaga at the Gym at Arillaga.

quadriceps stretch, then...

fast back squats, really accelerate up off the floor... 3 x 6 x 180

fast incline db press  ... 3 x 8 x 60   I need to move up to 65

lunge/jumps ... front/side/transverse...  6 x each side, serious heart rate buster

Core Selection:

lat pulls on roman chair... 15 each side with 55 pounds, move it FAST

hanging leg lifts ...  2 x 12

hammer wind core crushers on roman chair... 10 each way with 10 lb medicine ball

leg press  2  x 8  x 310 "on the stack"

rowing machine...wanted 10 minutes, bailed out at 8 minutes.


-------------
Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 2/23/10 at 9:45am
Went in to day for Personal Trainer session #2 with demigoddes Cori, but somehow the reservation system kicked me out, so I just did an easy movement day.  However, I tried some dead lifts for the first time in a very long time. I followed them up, immediately with 9 minutes on the rowing machine and I feel OK. We'll see how it goes tonight, but maybe that combination would work and I  could do at least some light deads.

2/23/10

deadlifts...3 x6 x 150 ...was hard but OK, I could probably do 180 without busting a gut.

rowing machine... 9 minutes... love me some rowing, it's great for the hip rotators

Hungarian Core Blasters....live dangerously... 15 x 60 lbs.


buncha easy rubber band work on shoulders  with huge ranges of motion, which is good...and I even tried "rubber band dead lifts"...pointless.  They might not be pointless for some folks,  like maybe people doing lower back rehab,  but they're pointless for me.


-------------
Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: KiltBill
Date Posted: 2/23/10 at 10:47am
Glad to see the Deads worked for you. Rowing sounds interesting,don't know if my gym has a rowing machine? HMMM


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 2/23/10 at 11:30am
Bill, I think the repetitive motion of the rowing machine works out the hard contractions  that the squats and deads set up. I'm not saying this right, but the upshot is that I notice that my muscles aren't as tight  if I row after squatting, than if I just walk away from the squat rack and do something else.  Maybe it'll work that way for the deads as well.  I suspect that I'm always going to have to stay away from "big weight", but if I can focus on moving lighter weights fast, and still do the motions, well.....nothing at all wrong with that, eh?

Like Myles and some other guys told me....you (meaning *me*) have to find what works for you. Just because a routine works for Craig or Greg or Ryan doesn't mean it'll  work for ME.  I kind of got focused on what other guys were doing...as in "Greg Hadley throws far, I want to throw far, therefore I must do what Greg Hadley does."... NOT.. WRONG..   BZZZZZTTTTTTT...Do not pass Go, do not collect $200.

Find what works for you (*me*), by trying a mess of stuff and then do those things.  So.

Hip rotators... I don't know about the rest of the world, but when I finish a hard throwing workout, what's sore and tired are A.) hip muscles and upper thigh  B.) calves

The rowing machine really works those hip rotators and upper thighs and besides, it's great cardio.


-------------
Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: thegnome
Date Posted: 2/23/10 at 11:56am
I've been really digging the rowing machine as well. 

-------------
Andrew G

Vada a bordo CAZZO!!!!


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 2/24/10 at 5:26am
It's the morning after doing dead lifts... no pain, lower back is happy, knee is actually *better*, and no numbness in my nuts.

I am liking this!  I will be teaming the rowing machine up with squats and deads in the future!


-------------
Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: mthompson33
Date Posted: 2/24/10 at 7:03am
Originally posted by thegnome thegnome wrote:

I've been really digging the rowing machine as well. 


+1


-------------
Matt Thompson

"If you wake up and you're not in pain, you know you're dead." -- Russian Proverb


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 2/24/10 at 10:55am
DAY TWO of the three-week program to make me almost as fast, though not as strong and not nearly as good-looking as Bill Gray. 

lateral  bosu squat jumps ...3 x 20

lateral/forward bosu lunges ...... 6 each side w/ 70 pounds

triceps cable pull downs...2 x 10 x 65

windmills ... 2 x 10 x 25

db overhead press ... 2 x 8 x 50 each arm

seated flys .... 8 x 205 "on the stack", 6 x 190 "on the stack"

cable chops, hi-lo, lo-hi .... 2 x 8 x 42 lbs "on the stack", each side..total 32 chops

Elliptical stairstepper;  steepest and hardest settings.... 10 minutes


-------------
Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 2/26/10 at 9:46am
Friday 2/26/2010

End of Week 1/3  of speed/strength building cycle

big quad stretch.....

Russian Squats/core crushers .. 8 x 95, 8 x 105 ...wow, lower back tired but 105 went fine.

incline bench sit ups... 10 lb plate on chest,  18 absolutely as fast as I can, annoyed I didn't do 20.

Russian Twists  on incline board with 12 lb ball... 2 x 10

Sumo Dead Lift High Pulls .... 2 x 8 x 95 pounds...last time I did these I did 85 pounds and thought I was gonna die.  This is a serious heart rate pumper.  I must be getting stronger.

push ups...feet on 20 inch box, hands on wobble board, 20 as fast as I can

db snatch ... left wrist hurts, probably strained something  and I'm resting it so just RH.... 2 x 6 x 85 pounds

Elliptical .... 17 incline/17 resistance, 8 minutes...quads *burn*, hip rotators feel it

-------------
Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: J. Baty
Date Posted: 2/26/10 at 1:09pm
Alan, Does the goddess plan your workouts for you. They seem to be a good mix. Keep up the good work. You lucky dog.

-------------
J.Baty


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 2/27/10 at 9:30am
Demigoddess Cori, who works for Amazon Goddess Wendy, and who did my personal training session as part of the University Health and Wellness program suggested some new things.  I showed her some of the basic throwing motions and said that I wanted to work on speed and strength for three weeks before taking 5 days off and then starting twice a week throwing workouts.

She came up with several good things...the lateral lunges, the forward/side/transverse jumps, the bosu  squat-jumps  and she ran me through doing the sumo dead lift high pulls to check on form.   I need to pop my hips more, but I'm doing them safely.   It was her idea to do the cable chops both hi/lo and low/hi.  I'd just be positioning the pulley at waist level and pulling straight, when I did them.  I can feel how the lo/hi chops are going to help with hammer, already.

 I added these exercises to my core array...loaded sit-ups/hanging leg lifts/lat pulls/hammer wind core crushers/hypers/supermans  plus just going down about 15% on some of my regular stuff and working for speed.  I don't pre-plan which 3 of the core array I do on any given day I just make sure I mix 'em up a bunch and keep at it.

I picked up the Russian Squats/core crushers (not sure if  Russian Squats is quite the right term) on my own by watching YouTube.

These all don't build raw straight-ahead strength but they're great for balance, quickness and strength in the kinds of motions we do. I'm really liking this.  If I combine deads and back squats with rowing machine or elliptical time, I seem to be able to do  them. I wish I'd found that out a month ago!  Put it all together and I think this is a good plan for the next couple of weeks.

The other good thing is that I did a fitness assessment as part of this program and that included a 5-minute cardiovascular stress test. My cardio fitness was "acceptable" but not good, so now I'm working on that at least a little bit.


-------------
Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 3/01/10 at 10:15am
3/1/2010

stretch...quads, hamstrings, gracilis

back squats.... 2 x 6 x 200 lbs...WOOHOO.  That's big stuff for me!

situps, incline board, 10 lbs plate  19 as fast as I can.. I WILL do 20 next time.

incline db press, go for speed...2 x 8 x 65, and then four more to build character, though they weren't exactly "fast".

front/side/transverse jumps..single leg .... 5 cycles each side

hammer wind core crushers on roman chair ...10 each way, 12 lb medicine ball.  Pretty funny, I was going for as much extension as I could and I slid completely off the chair on #7,  going clockwise.

cable chops  lo/hi and hi/lo   really go for speed  ...43 lbs  "on the stack", 2 x 8 each side, total 32 chops

hip adduct/abduct .... 8 x 150 pounds "on the stack"  left and right both ways

row machine  ... 8 minutes 2:20/km, 1 min < 2:00/ km ...total 9 min.

..knee is tight, very tight. I'll Ben Gay it tonight.


-------------
Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 3/02/10 at 10:17am
3/1/2010

Had second appointment with Demigoddess Cori.  She is the schiznit.  Now, all you great big Manly Men  may point and laugh at the vision of dudes rolling around on a mat, perched on a hard foam roller, but I have to say that I walked into that appointment with a sore, unstable knee from yesterdays squatting, and I walked out with a knee that felt about 95% capacity.

I look at photos of Larry Brock and Mike  Pockoski  and Bruce Aitkin laid out in extended hammer position  and I can't conceive of how I'll ever get there. Well, now I have a nifty stretch to ease up those lats and delts and increase flexibility in my shoulders. Not only that, but it uses one of those trendy latex balls, to annoy the Alpha Males .  We talked over doing suitcase dead lifts  instead of "regular" dead lifts and I did them for her and got the nod.  I like 'em, she likes 'em so Suitcase Deads it is.  I put the dumbells on the lowest plyo boxes (about 8 inches)  and pull from there.

So I now have a T-Th routine  through the end of  March... AND...demigoddess  Cori might come out on  Sunday to our throws group and meet the guys and see what it's all about .

T-Th routine...light

exercise ball single/double delt/lat stretch

suitcase deads

bosu balance squats... I think I'm going to basically do light overhead squats on the bosu  and go really slow to work calves

single-leg crossbody cable chops

spend a good 15 minutes  with a foam roller on my inner leg adductors, glutes and pirriformis and quads.  The 15-20 minutes we spent today worked flipping miracles on my right knee.  I can commit to this!




-------------
Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 3/03/10 at 10:36am
I think I'm going to add hamstring curls...light, lots of reps to the T-Th workout.

Anyway, here's today.

bosu side-to-side squat jumps ....3 x 20

front-side bosu lunges.... 6 each side x 70 lbs

sit=ups, inclined bench w 10 lb plate....19 and a half.   sorta

dumbell curls...hate 'em but sore left wrist seriously does not like the bent curl bar...8 x 45, 6 x 40

bench dips with 45 lb plate in my lap.... 2 x 15 dips

lat pulls on roman chair....15 each side, 55 pounds, go FAST

triceps cable pulldowns ...  12 x 65 "on the stack", 10 x 65 "on the stack"


windmills ....2 x 10 x 25..yeah!!

seated flys on machine ...8 x 205 on the stack, 6 x 205 on the stack

light hamstring curls.....2 x 12 x 65 pounds, no biggie.


-------------
Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 3/07/10 at 1:19pm
Got no sleep on  Wed or Thursday and felt like total crap on Friday so I skipped a gym day.

Throws day today went well.

Good practice today. I got a couple of guys in the Guild started out throwing, John did well on his first time with caber and Roberto looks pretty good with the light weight. Bert from Stanford came out, he's coming along.  He's still throwing 50 LWFD with no form!  He had a hell of time with the caber today, though.



Me, I'm happy...cleared 13 feet in WOB twice after everybody went home, and that's with my Masters weight for distance so it drags on the ground.  All up , had about 8-9 WOB tosses.

 LWFD 42-44 feet, which is acceptable.  We did a lot of single spin drills today.   I owned my 100 lb 13 foot caber today, turned it four times in a row, all 12:00 - 12:30's. Open Stone standing throws at 29 feet  after my usual toeboard drills...skipped the drop-and-pops and A-line drills today, 'cause I had the Guild guys to get started. 29 is just fine for me.

 I'm happy with where I am right now in the season. All these weights this past winter have paid off.



-------------
Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 3/08/10 at 10:56am
3/8/2010

Back Squat ...3 x 5 x 200  felt good!  time to move up to 220!

incline db press... 2 x 6 x 70

hanging leg lifts... 2 x 12

hammer wind core crushers on roman chair... 8 each direction x 12 lb ball

front-side-lateral  jumps ...5 each side

hamstring curls .... 2 x 8 x 110  easy, do 'em to maintain muscle balance in upper leg

rowing machine...9 min.. 8 min + 1 minute sprint ,

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Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: West
Date Posted: 3/08/10 at 5:03pm
The hammer winds on the roman chair are killer! Good job man!

-------------
Drink to the fame of it, honor the name of it, The Tartan.


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 3/09/10 at 11:55am
Originally posted by West West wrote:

The hammer winds on the roman chair are killer! Good job man!


/HA!  The slower you go, the more they hurt! LOL


-------------
Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 3/10/10 at 10:48am
Todays sweatin' gruntin' saga
at the gym at Arillaga..

bosu jump-squats ...  3 x 20  lower  back exhausted

bosu front-side lunges ... 5 x 80 pounds each side. It's not the lunge that's killer, it's holding the balance point for a five count and then pushing  back *hard*  that kicks your ass.  I always pick the most under-inflated bosus I can find.

cable chops, hi/lo..lo/hi  ...10 x 53 pounds each side, 10 x 46 pounds each side  going for explosive speed...total of 40 chops.  I've changed my stance on these so I'm really pulling from *behind* me, that makes for a much longer pull.

bench rows  3 x 6 x 85..OK, slipped a few in there with the 90 pound db

stupid curl machine that limits range of motion  2 x 10 x "60" on the "stack" or whatever.

triceps cable pull downs...2 x 10 x 73 lbs

windmills .....2 x 10 x 25

seated flys ....8 x 190 on the stack, 4 x 190 on the stack NO GAS!


-------------
Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: Duncan McCallum
Date Posted: 3/11/10 at 2:12am

"bosu front-side lunges ... 5 x 80 pounds each side. It's not the lunge that's killer, it's holding the balance point for a five count and then pushing  back *hard*  that kicks your ass.  I always pick the most under-inflated bosus I can find."

Can you break this down for me?  Sounds like a good tool for my rehab...



-------------
The man in the arena.


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 3/11/10 at 7:37am
Originally posted by Duncan McCallum Duncan McCallum wrote:

"bosu front-side lunges ... 5 x 80 pounds each side. It's not the lunge that's killer, it's holding the balance point for a five count and then pushing  back *hard*  that kicks your ass.  I always pick the most under-inflated bosus I can find."

Can you break this down for me?  Sounds like a good tool for my rehab...



Sure, Duncan...

I set up three bosus.  One is directly in front of me, one is off to my right side and one off to my left side.  They're about three feet away from me. You will find the right distance for yourself, by trial and error.  You've made a little isoceles triangle of bosu's, with the  bosu's at the corners.

OK, I pull a couple of dumbells off the rack and hold them hanging down at my sides.  I step into  the bosu triangle so that two of them are directly off to my sides and one is straight forward.  I start with my right leg.   I lunge forward, landing with my leading, right foot on the bosu in front of me.  I go down low, working hard to maintain balance, just like you would on a lunge on the floor.  Back is straight, just like a regular lunge. 

Basically it's like the first half of this video, only with weight...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OKyhVNy4D4

When I'm as  low as I can comfortably go, I do a slow five-count, and then push back, *hard* to center.  The "squishier" the bosu, the harder it is to maintain balance, so get the mushiest ones on the floor.

Now I lunge out to the side, go low, hold for a five count, and push back *hard* to center.  I find that I'm usually letting the weights hang fore-and-aft on the side lunge, rather than at my sides like they are on the forward lunge.

Now, switch legs. If I started with the right leg, now I do the same thing with the left leg. Lunge forward, and hold...push back.  Lunge to the side and hold...push back.  Repeat for five pairs of lunges on each leg, more if you want to.


There are three good things about lunging onto a bosu.  1.) there's no impact, so it's easy on the knees.  2.) the bosu is unstable, so you are really working your ankles and calves to hold the low position for a five count.  3.) the bosu "gives" when you push off to come back to center, so you have to push off hard to get back.   Honestly, I think that a hard push-back from the forward bosu lunge also translates well to some more *pop* in the stones/shot put, but that's just me.

I usually do this with two 35 pound, or two 40 pound dumbells in my hands.  You'll probably need more, or you can just do more of them.

I also do bosu jump squats like this....just fast forward through the chick blabbing her mouth off and you'll see what it is.  You have to maintain good lower back position.  3 sets of twenty, really trying to jump *up* as I go over the top is a good heart-rate buster and my quads feel it.  There's no magic to the bosu in this one, you could just as easily jump over a pylo box. The bosu is just handy, and it's already there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Gw6hWu6oZA

And finally, I think this looks like stupid fun as an alternate to jump rope.   If you do this, POST VIDEO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGXIQj4sTn8



-------------
Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 3/11/10 at 11:01am
Todays experimental day 

bigtime ham/quad stretch

suitcase dead lifts, with variations.  OK, so here's how I did this. I set up the two lowest pylo boxes on the floor about 2 feet from each other. On each pylo box goes a 60 pound dumbell.  I stand in between the boxes.

1.) hunker down, pick up right dumbell...stand up fast
2.) hunker down, put down right dumbell, grab left dumbell .... stand up fast
3.) hunker down, pick up right dumbell (now holding both dumbells/120 pounds) ....stand up so fast my feet clear the floor.
4.) hunker down, leave dumbells on boxes...stand up  empty handed

Repeat..........repeat for two set of five of the above routine.  Oh yeah, quads feel it and heart rate goes way up!

Hamstring curls .....2 x 10 x 115 pounds, easy, just to maintain balance

hip adductor/abductors ... 2 x 10 x 165, yeah, up 15 lbs

stairmaster, old fashioned...8 minutes then my quads couldn't take it any more

I'm going to figure out how to mix up lifting routines once I start throwing and the suitcase lifts will be a part of it.


-------------
Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 3/12/10 at 9:59am
Todays workout....last day in the three-week plan to work on getting  both strong and Mobile and Explosive.

3/12/2010

Russian Squats/core crushers...those twist-dip squat things... 2 x 12 x 110..every week I go up another 5 lbs, today I added two more reps.

Sumo Dead Lift High Pulls ... 2 x 8 x 95 lbs

push-up... feet on 24 inch latex ball   20 as fast as I can and then 15 more to build character

sit-ups with 25 pound plate on chest ....15

lat pulls on roman chair .... 13 x 55 pounds  each side

dumbell snatch....decided to go for it and see if I could snatch 100 pounds.. Tried 4x ..FAIL, but allllmost got it, twice.

hammer wind core crushers on roman chair .... 10 each way with 8 lb ball

rowing machine.... 9 minutes  2:30/1500 meters, then 1 minute sprint.

-------------
Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 3/12/10 at 10:09am
So, today is kind of a big day. Today is the "official"..End of the Off-Season.  Next week I start throwing 2 x a week. I will lift light/whole body on Mondays and squat on Fridays.  T-Th I throw.  So next week I start the..what??  ON-Season?

First "Games" is April 10th, that's a demo day.  The first "Real" Games, sort of the moment of truth is Woodland, end of April.  I have six weeks to take whatever gains in strength I've posted this winter and turn them into feet and inches on the field.

Did I get stronger this winter?  HELL, yes. When I started I could barely do a dozen push-ups, nonstop. Today I did 35 pushups with my feet on a 24 inch latex ball,  hands on wobble boards, wobbling around.   I've gained muscle mass, lost some fat, and I'm in much better aerobic shape than I was in October.

So like I said, this is a big day. This is the first time in almost two decades that I have set a conditioning goal, had something like an actual plan (sort of) and stuck with it for five months. Honestly, except for my on-again, off-again attempt at a program last off-season, I haven't made a concentrated effort to get in the gym for two decades. The last time I worked out hard, seriously hard for an extended period was wrestling season my senior year in High School. That would be 1975. Yeah, I ran a lot during the 80's  and did several 10 K runs. I Busted hump for seven-eight weeks in 2003 and did the Truckee-Tahoe 25 km Cross Country ski race.  But I've never set goals like this and worked this hard for this long, like I have these past five months.  In five months, I think I've missed three days, total due to work or other smack that kept me out of the gym. My only regret is that I didn't hit on a real program that would work for me until only about a month ago. Between some ideas I got on this forum, Amazon Goddess Wendy's wisdom and guidance, and some coaching from Demigoddess Cori, I've found something that works for me.

Even if I see minimal improvement in my throwing, the fact that I did this, that I worked this hard, this consistently for the past five months is a serious "victory" for me.  It may be no big shakes for you guys who get in the gym all the time, but I'm just a little bit proud of myself for doing this.


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Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: West
Date Posted: 3/12/10 at 10:38am

Congratulations on sticking to it Alan! Its incredible how much energy it takes people to get off their butts and do something, expecially when they dont feel like doing it. (i can vouch)

Wont we see you in Vegas?



-------------
Drink to the fame of it, honor the name of it, The Tartan.


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 3/12/10 at 11:03am
Originally posted by West West wrote:

Congratulations on sticking to it Alan! Its incredible how much energy it takes people to get off their butts and do something, expecially when they dont feel like doing it. (i can vouch)

Wont we see you in Vegas?



I am tempted  to try to make it to Vegas, if only so I can talk smack to Jay while he stomps my butt on the field, again!    However, I'm saving my pennies for the MWC in Denver.

I will be at Costa Mesa in May, though, and the Mrs. and her brother and the kids will probably be along.  I might drive down for Ventura, too since we lost our October Games here in Nor Cal..


-------------
Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: Silverback
Date Posted: 3/12/10 at 12:05pm
Progress is intoxicating.

-------------
Mule

Sportkilt
AST Sport Supplements


Posted By: KiltBill
Date Posted: 3/12/10 at 12:14pm
Congrats Alan, you have my respect brother!! Now let's work on
technique.
Bill


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 3/12/10 at 2:34pm
You got that right Myles.  It started out being a PITA, now I enjoy it...

and Bill... OH YEAH.


-------------
Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: Duncan McCallum
Date Posted: 3/13/10 at 2:14am

Well done Alan.  You planned your work, you worked your plan, and now you have put yourself in a position to succeed.

And that is how winning is done.



-------------
The man in the arena.


Posted By: mthompson33
Date Posted: 3/13/10 at 5:07am
Nice Work!  

-------------
Matt Thompson

"If you wake up and you're not in pain, you know you're dead." -- Russian Proverb


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 3/15/10 at 11:13am
OK, today is Day One of the "The ON-Season Workout...Fast and Strong" program.  I'm doing lighter weights, more reps and moving the weight as fast as I can. The only exception to this will be Friday Back Squats, where I'm going to be slowly adding weight. The Goal is two sets of 5  @ 230 pounds by the April 17th.

Todays party  3/15/10

quad and adductor stretch...

Suitcase lift sequence..  2 x 5 x 70 pounds
place 70 lb dumbells on lowest pylo boxes.  Stand between the boxes. Bend down, pick up  db in right hand, stand up really fast. Now bend down, leave the right hand db behind, pick up left had db.  Stand up really fast. Now bend down and pick up both dumbells (140).  Stand up so fast my feet clear the floor (barely).  Bend down, put down both db, and stand up emptyhanded.  Repeat.

Hip adductor/abductor ... 2 x 10 x 165

front/side bosu lunges ... 4 each side/ 70 lbs

pushups ... 20, feet on 20 inch box, hands on wobble boards

core 1 -  situps...19 x 10 lb plate on chest

core 2 - lat pulls on roman chair  2 x 10 x 50 lbs

elliptical -  incline/resist @ 15, 10 minutes

-------------

BTW thanks and kudos to Matt Thompson who alerted me to "Suitcase Lifts" by one post in his log. I looked them up on YouTube and tried them out. Back is happy (but tired)....knees are happy. Quads burn. It's all good.

Thanks, Matt.

....and also, Myles was right. You just have to find a program that works for you. (me).  Just because **insert name of monster Pro thrower here** does something doesn't mean that I have to do whatever-it-is. Find what works.

Then do it.  Hard.




-------------
Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: mthompson33
Date Posted: 3/15/10 at 11:54pm
No problem Alan.  I was talking about suitcase (or one-arm) side-bends (I didn't know the terminology very well at that time), but the suitcase deads work the same stabilizers in a more limited ROM.  I should try the suitcase deads sometime...  I can do the side bends after I have done my big leg days for extra core/stabilizer work, or just as part of a core/ab/back routine.  If you try the side-bends start out with a much lighter weight.  :)

Oh, you can also start doing farmers walks both one-sided and two sided to add another dimension to your suitcase lift...


-------------
Matt Thompson

"If you wake up and you're not in pain, you know you're dead." -- Russian Proverb


Posted By: thegnome
Date Posted: 3/16/10 at 1:53am
Those might be fun to try, I think I'm going to add those, thanks.

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Andrew G

Vada a bordo CAZZO!!!!


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 3/16/10 at 5:47am
Well, at the least they're  great for a little variety.  For me they're great because they tire my lower back but they don't hurt.  Big difference.
Damn, I wish I had access to a hex bar.

i wonder if I could "donate" one to the gym!


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Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training


Posted By: thegnome
Date Posted: 3/16/10 at 7:00am
The hex bar was what I was thinking.  Fortunately I have access.  Thinking of them as an option to box jumps.

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Andrew G

Vada a bordo CAZZO!!!!


Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 3/16/10 at 11:03am
Originally posted by thegnome thegnome wrote:

The hex bar was what I was thinking.  Fortunately I
have access.  Thinking of them as an option to box jumps.


I just fired off an e-mail to the guy who runs the program that oversees our
gym, asking if we could get a hex/shrug bar. Turns out they don't cost all
that much... like < $200.. I think if they don't go for it, it'll be a space-use
issue rather than a dollars and cents issue. We'll see.

-------------
Alan Hebert

Geezer-In-Training



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