sheaf stylin’ with Duncan and Bill -sorta
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Topic: sheaf stylin’ with Duncan and Bill -sorta
Posted By: Alan H
Subject: sheaf stylin’ with Duncan and Bill -sorta
Date Posted: 11/27/10 at 9:18pm
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OK, Duncan and Bill, comments are invited. However, the first one of you that makes a comment about my lardgut hanging out over the waistband of my shorts forfeits the MacAllan 18 that I WAS going to send you for Christmas. Be nice, but be thorough.....yeah, yeah, whatever....  ..everybody is welcome to comment, of course. The more wisdom, the better.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kspAIqsLqa0 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kspAIqsLqa0 ------------- Alan Hebert Geezer-In-Training |
Replies:
Posted By: J. Baty
Date Posted: 11/28/10 at 10:13am
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Alan, Sometimes you use your leg and sometimes not so much. You're not lifting the sheaf with your legs at all. You're stopping a little early at the end of your pull and letting the sheaf just slide off the fork. Try to pull through the end of your throw. Your 4th pull in the video was your best. When you get the fork to vibrate after a pull through the bag then you know it was a good pull. You have to get some twang on that fork. But not the kind of twang Bill gets on the fork at the buffet.
------------- J.Baty |
Posted By: KiltBill
Date Posted: 11/28/10 at 11:07am
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Alan, when you swing the sheaf back it needs to stay closer to your
feet. To far out and you are stooped over and as you straighten up the sheaf travels farther behind you. When the arc is closer to your feet you will have to bend your knees which allows you to drive into your hips. Thanks for the video. |
Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 11/28/10 at 12:45pm
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Jeff, yeah I got a good ringggg out of the fork on the last toss. I get the fork to vibrate about one time out of three. OK, I will try to "pull longer". UP to now I've been trying to pull hard and then **STOP** suddently to *ping* the bag off of the fork. Bill, you're absolutely right, I was a bit bent over in the video. I figured this out at the end of the season last year. If I keep my back a little straighter and get my hips under myself a little more, then I have to get the "spring" in the throw from my legs, not from straightening my lower back. I get another foot or two out of it that way. Also, the arc was more up and down that way, exactly like you said.....OK, something to remember. ------------- Alan Hebert Geezer-In-Training |
Posted By: Duncan McCallum
Date Posted: 11/28/10 at 3:12pm
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Let me get to my home computer where I can view this and I will get back to you post haste. Can't wait to see it Slim Biggins. Lardgut? Have you met Duncan McCallum? ------------- The man in the arena. |
Posted By: buckcali
Date Posted: 11/29/10 at 6:40pm
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Hey Alen... I need to agree with Jeff more legs... but you will also notice on each of your throws you step forward... It looks like when you take the bag back for the final swing you change your line and go from back behind your right shoulder to way infront of your left shoulder causing you pull up with the bag way in front of you.... (less power and a harder throw) Just my 2cents ------------- Buck http://boostinternetmarketing.com" rel="nofollow - Boost Internet Marketing http://ljtherapy.com/" rel="nofollow - LJ Therapy |
Posted By: Duncan McCallum
Date Posted: 11/30/10 at 5:03am
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Alan, Dude, that does not look bad. If you will give me a few days, I am going to break down your technique and post a vid...will be easier than explaining. You are going to add feet my friend. Trust me. ------------- The man in the arena. |
Posted By: jazzman31
Date Posted: 12/01/10 at 4:26am
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Just do not listen to him in weight over bar. LOL I swear Duncan you get the trajectory right and you have 15 feet at least. Then maybe you might be enough to challenge me in WOB. LOL |
Posted By: Duncan McCallum
Date Posted: 12/01/10 at 4:37am
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I'm sorry Jazzy I couldn't hear you...must have been all those medals around my neck clanging around. Here let me take them off...one at a time. This might take a minute. Trajectory shmajectory...I just missed. I hesitated, you capitalized. You beat me like a drum in that event, plain and simple. Working on vid Alan. ------------- The man in the arena. |
Posted By: jazzman31
Date Posted: 12/01/10 at 5:33am
| Still doesnt excuse you kicking my butt up and down the field all day long. I will get my rematch. |
Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 12/02/10 at 6:53am
What's all that clanking?  OK. MORE LEGS says everybody. All righty, then. And keep my butt under myself so that I don't change my line and also swing the sheaf out too far away from my body. ------------- Alan Hebert Geezer-In-Training |
Posted By: KiltBill
Date Posted: 12/02/10 at 12:40pm
| Alan, He was'nt kidding. He medaled in every event and wore them the rest of the afternoon. We could hear him walking around the games from our campsight. |
Posted By: J. Baty
Date Posted: 12/03/10 at 2:01am
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When I was Officiating at the Louisiana Senior Olympics this little 80 year old women was walking into the Discus ring and there was a clanging from under her shirt. When I asked her what all that clanging was she replied. What did you think it was? My boobs. I'll bet you wish it was. I was speechless. And I stopped asking what all the clanging was. ------------- J.Baty |
Posted By: Duncan McCallum
Date Posted: 12/03/10 at 9:25am
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Ewwwwwwww ------------- The man in the arena. |
Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 12/03/10 at 10:35am
Just think. You could be married to her daughter. ------------- Alan Hebert Geezer-In-Training |
J. Baty wrote:Posted By: Duncan McCallum
Date Posted: 12/03/10 at 11:32am
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Ewwwwwww squared ------------- The man in the arena. |
Posted By: =Travis=
Date Posted: 12/04/10 at 12:49am
| For some reason I picture the women making that comment as Philo Beddoe's mom in the movie "Every Which Way But Loose." |
Posted By: J. Baty
Date Posted: 12/04/10 at 6:19am
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Close, and she put her cigar on the outside of the ring before she threw. Also had one old lady cuss when she threw bad, When I asked her if she had cussed. She said if she doesn't throw any better I was going to hear a lot more.
------------- J.Baty |
Posted By: dl_buffy
Date Posted: 12/14/10 at 5:45am
| No vid breakdown...very sad. |
Posted By: dl_buffy
Date Posted: 12/14/10 at 5:50am
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Oh, not so sure about the turning the shoulder/chest idea. Every time I let my shoulder open or look back liek that I hook the bag and loose easily 8 feet at times. It's horrible. Working with Dean (thanks dean) he has never suggested opening up like that and I don't. Not sure if that works for others, but every time I see someone at a competition open up and turn like that they are hooking the back under the bar.... |
Posted By: Silverback
Date Posted: 12/15/10 at 1:12am
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If you look you hook. Don't turn the shoulders and the arm should be parallel to the ground when you block. You should be leaning over and letting your arms hang down. You get your power from how far you can reach to the right. You should be reaching way over with your chin on your left shoulder and then driving to the block. Then block so hard it hurts. Like the fork slams into a wall. Don't let the fork come up higher than parallel to the ground with the block and don't turn, and don't look. Make your core stronger so you can do the pull from the right into the block harder. If you ever see Kearney Smith do this movement, you will hear the bag tearing he gets so much force into it. He blocked so hard it tore his left bicep. The more violent you can get, the higher it goes.
------------- Mule Sportkilt AST Sport Supplements |
Posted By: Duncan McCallum
Date Posted: 12/15/10 at 2:28am
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Video is recorded, just not up. Damn interwebz. I'll have it for you this afternoon Alan. One throw at a time. Basically, EVERYTHING Myles just posted. ------------- The man in the arena. |
Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 12/15/10 at 12:05pm
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I don't wanna LOOK.... But seriously...no problem there, I don't look, or didn't until I tried doing something different...the last three throws in that video. I suspect that I need to be more violent. Seriously. More violent. Can do. ------------- Alan Hebert Geezer-In-Training |
Posted By: Duncan McCallum
Date Posted: 12/16/10 at 2:40am
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zr0vP8XHGKo - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zr0vP8XHGKo It is done...have fun with it Alan! Iron out the fundamentals and post back with your progress. ------------- The man in the arena. |
Posted By: dl_buffy
Date Posted: 12/16/10 at 5:40am
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SPIDEY!!!!! (HAHA...I was just about to say...'don't fork the cat!') ....travelocity gnome...ha! |
Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 12/17/10 at 6:38am
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SWEET!!!!! Thanks, Spiderman! 'nuther Alan H video will be produced over X Mas break. * relax shoulders * bend knees * eyes-focal point about 8 ft in front of me on the ground * don't bend over, get in deep-ish hang clean sort of position. Shoulders in front, yes, but not "bent over" * at wind-up, bag outside the knees * drive bag and fork DOWN, *hard* (this is a violent event) to check point in front of my left foot. * chest up, drive up as hard as possible like a clean...pop hip?....look up, but look STRAIGHT up, not at the bags flight * block so hard that the fork pings and vibrates. got some work to do! Spiderman be One Good Dude! Thanks! ------------- Alan Hebert Geezer-In-Training |
Posted By: dl_buffy
Date Posted: 12/17/10 at 7:06am
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Uhm...don't worry about that look up part. I usually end up looking 'forwardish'. Don't over emphasize that as you may start to lean back too. ....and this may be too complicated so ignore if it is confusing...the fork is not pinging because you blocked. You block so the bag will flip off the tines. It is that fast flip off the fork that makes the tines sing. |
Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 12/17/10 at 7:37am
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I know the feel of having the fork ring after the bag flies off of it. In my video, I got that *ping* in the second throw, the "new" way, which in fact is not what Duncan was writing about at all. Still and all, the fork had a good vibe set up. I think the point is to drive my hips and chest straight up, just like a hang clean. It's a very good point. I throw out here in California with a good friend, Steve Elliott. He and I are about even in ability. I always win the hammers and the LWFD, he always wins the open stone, caber and WOB (except for a freak in the caber at Ventura this year) and we split the HWFD and the Braemar, depending on who's hot that day. I had a head start on Sheaf this year, because I'd actually worked on technique a little bit, but it didn't take long for Steve to catch up (like one Games! ), and now he's 2-4 feet higher than I am.Where he just kills me in WOB and caber and sheaf is in his speed and acceleration in the legs, just like a hang clean or a snatch. I have the technique and radius-length in the hammers and LWFD....but he's got freakin' garage door springs in his legs, and it shows in the other events. So this is a focal point of my offseason training this winter....not rally so much to "beat Steve" but just because it's become clear, by comparison, where my weak point is. Clearly, a good sheaf toss is a function of explosive speed in the core, which is why Steve is naturally good at it and I struggle a bit. ------------- Alan Hebert Geezer-In-Training |
Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 12/17/10 at 7:46am
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BTW, I went 20 feet at Santa Cruz, which was a PR, and I did that with no knees. Then I went to Ventura and cleared 18 easily, would have had 20 except that inexplicably they moved the bar up to 23+ feet. whuuuuut? Oh, well. But I had no knees...no gas in my quads. Seriously, when I came back from Ventura, even two weeks later and I got on the knee extension machine in the gym, I couldn't push up 15 pounds with my right leg. Ten, I could do but it hurt a lot, and 5 was about what made sense. My left leg was a little bit better, but I still couldn't crank up 25 pounds on my left leg. That's how bad it was at Pleasanton, Santa Cruz and Ventura. Summer Pierson wryly suggested at Ventura that next time I did WOB I put a little bit of acceleration into the throw, she didn't know what was going on with my legs at the time, but it just goes to show how bad it was. Despite that I set a PR in the Braemar at Ventura. Now I do 60 pounds on the knee extension machine, 2 x 8, and I will be pushing that to 2 x 8 x 75 or 80 before the season starts. So I think that 24 feet in the sheaf is within reach. ------------- Alan Hebert Geezer-In-Training |
Posted By: dl_buffy
Date Posted: 12/17/10 at 8:14am
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You mean leg extensions? Where you are sitting down and you hook feet under bar below you and straight legs out lifting that bar up? Can I ask why you are doing those? Those tend to be a bodybuilding type of move really. Something to get 'pump' with but not strength. Another issue with that machine (if we talking same thing) is that it puts shear stresses across the knee that it wasn't really designed to deal with. The knee is designed to take stress from top to bottom...not from front which is where the leg extension machine puts it. (Now I say all that and I admit I did spend my 20's getting up toward 200lbs [according to plates) on those machines. But then I was young and listening to what the body building mags were saying. |
)Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 12/17/10 at 11:32am
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Yes, that's the exercise...leg extensions. I started doing them for knee rehab. My former physical therapist, and also Goddess Wendy suggested them. They're not part of my regular routine. I do them maybe once every other weeks, just kind of to see how I'm doing. I notice that the two hardcore bodybuilding guys in my gym do them a lot, BTW. I still feel residual weakness in my knees in exactly the place where leg extensions work, while I'm climbing stairs. I don't notice anything odd in the gym, but I sure feel it on the stairs. Leg extensions seem to help. Split squats, though....they definitely are part of my routine, now, and I "feel" split squats working muscles in the same place. ------------- Alan Hebert Geezer-In-Training |
Posted By: Duncan McCallum
Date Posted: 12/17/10 at 2:06pm
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Alan, Let me clarify a few points... 1. Head up at the end of the throw does not equal head up and back. Dave is right...leaning back might translate into a missed toss. The fix: Keep your fork on the track, drive straight down and block up hard all in a straight line and you'll be fine. This works, trust me...it just takes time to learn how to dial it in. Oh yeah, quit leg extensions unless they are for rehab; I don't want to carry your broke-a$$ around the race track in California. 2. Normally Canadeeyans cannot be trusted, but Brian Austin is right...it is critical to keep the right arm as straight as possible during your wind up and all the way into the drive down (the long leg of the check mark) If you don't, you can: stick your fork in your leg, stick your fork in someone else's leg, or miss your throw. This arm can stay long, loose, and straight. Just like me. 3. Avoid sheaformance anxiety...there is no pill for this; pick a stance and a position relative to the sheaf standards and don't change that for anyone. I cannot tell you how many folks I see change their stance between throws or change their steps out and over relative to the standards and the bag trajectory goes to hell. And most importantly...these are things that work for me. Me, myself, and my preciousssssssssss. Some of the fine-tuning/polish stuff might not work for you. This is not meant to be the final word on sheaf, and don't just take what I say as gospel...question it and find others who are better. "Why can't we pick our own colors?" ------------- The man in the arena. |
Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 12/17/10 at 2:28pm
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I suspect that it's not just me who's reading/learning this thread!!! ------------- Alan Hebert Geezer-In-Training |
Posted By: Duncan McCallum
Date Posted: 12/17/10 at 2:44pm
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For good or ill... ------------- The man in the arena. |
Posted By: CDarby
Date Posted: 12/18/10 at 1:58am
Absolutely correct. Now if the snow would just go away so I could go out and practice this stuff. |
Posted By: J. Baty
Date Posted: 12/18/10 at 11:08am
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Alan, I step out further the higher I go. Because the bag will peak behind the bar if I don't. Now I have to go do my sheaf blaster 5000.
------------- J.Baty |
Posted By: KiltBill
Date Posted: 12/18/10 at 1:15pm
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Jeff, may I recommend the Turbo bands as they amplify the eccentric
portion of the toss creating greater resistance as well as pain! Alan, your friendly neighborhood spider hulk gave you some great info. Can't wait to see your next video. Toss high my sheaf brother! |
Posted By: Old Dude
Date Posted: 12/22/10 at 5:21pm
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Some have to learn the fork. Others are born to it.  ------------- Over Fork Over |
Posted By: Duncan McCallum
Date Posted: 12/23/10 at 5:50am
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There a few gents out there who really do get the sheaf. I hate those forkin' guys. ------------- The man in the arena. |
Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 12/23/10 at 5:55pm
I tried it yesterday but some guy in this red and blue latex suit came over and did something weird to my camera, so no video.
------------- Alan Hebert Geezer-In-Training |
Posted By: Duncan McCallum
Date Posted: 12/25/10 at 9:26am
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Hate it when he does that. ------------- The man in the arena. |
Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 1/03/11 at 4:05pm
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OK, I have an all-comers track met on Saturday, but after that I will set up the camera and chuck sheaf over the goalposts. This is assuming I can get away with it on the track and that it doesn't pour down rain.
------------- Alan Hebert Geezer-In-Training |
Posted By: KiltBill
Date Posted: 1/03/11 at 10:00pm
| You go big Guy, I'm rooting for you! |
Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 1/09/11 at 6:22am
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wvT_G14eeg - DAS SHEAFMEISTER I'm a little out of gas in this video, I'd just finished an all - comers track meet and that after kicking my ass with a hard core workout on Friday, but it is, what it is. I think I need to practice this a few times at half-crank to get some details worked out, like not pulling up with my right arm. ------------- Alan Hebert Geezer-In-Training |
Posted By: Duncan McCallum
Date Posted: 1/10/11 at 11:31am
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Love the second toss...keep it up Boss. Stay loose. Keep working it. 30 this year. ------------- The man in the arena. |
Posted By: Jason Cherry
Date Posted: 1/10/11 at 1:22pm
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"Suffering Shad!"
Had I seen this before last night it would have helped tremendously. Cannot wait till Sunday to try it out. *NOTE* Special 'No Prize' to anyone that can give me the character that famous quote is from. Hint: think Timely Comics. ------------- "Example is the best precept." ~ Aesop |
Posted By: Duncan McCallum
Date Posted: 1/10/11 at 1:28pm
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------------- The man in the arena. |
Posted By: Jason Cherry
Date Posted: 1/10/11 at 1:34pm
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KHAN!!! KHAN!!! KHAN!!! ------------- "Example is the best precept." ~ Aesop |
Posted By: Detroitpete
Date Posted: 1/11/11 at 12:40am
OK Mr. Cherry NOW you think yer gonna throw sheaf TOO! ALL the working out--all the caber work and now SHEAF!??? What gives little man? Getting bigger--moving out of the 190 class---hmmm...I see an intresting season this year  ------------- Mark Peterson. Pissing off bullies since 1965 |
Posted By: KiltBill
Date Posted: 1/11/11 at 11:40pm
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Got out last night and Tossed the Sheaf. Sheaf Tossing and Deadlifting, these are a few of my favorite things! When the dog bites......... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVCo98L6d48 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVCo98L6d48 |
Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 1/12/11 at 6:01am
There.....Bill, there's a huge difference between your right arm and mine. Yours is bent a little bit, but it's down, more or less straight down. I pull mine up. Your throw and Duncans throws are more rotational than mine are. Mine is more of a straight-up clean. I *THINK* that because I'm pulling my right arm up during the power part of the throw, as if I was cleaning a bar, that I'm reducing the radius through which the bag travels. I need to do this about 50 times at half speed to work on keeping my right arm...my "back of the fork handle" arm straight. I suspect that if I do that, combined with the energy of my power clean, that I will see more height. ------------- Alan Hebert Geezer-In-Training |
Posted By: buckcali
Date Posted: 1/12/11 at 10:00am
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I need to ask 2 general question about sheaf fork placement in the bag... 1. Can you explain why you are not going through the sheaf all the way (leaving the tip of the tines in the sheaf bag)? 2. Why you are selecting the side of the sheaf instead of the corner? The little guy from Cali ------------- Buck http://boostinternetmarketing.com" rel="nofollow - Boost Internet Marketing http://ljtherapy.com/" rel="nofollow - LJ Therapy |
Posted By: KiltBill
Date Posted: 1/13/11 at 1:23am
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1). I practice throwing the sheaf with different ways to insert the fork. I am short and sometimes the bag tends to be long or stretched & loose. By forking it backwards I can still drive low and get a big pull. If its raining and the bag is wet a shallow bite in the bag is best as the bag will grab the fork when wet. 2). The corner tends to be great for narrow forks but mine is wide. I also don't get much out of the corner type throws as it makes the bag longer and my timing doent take advantage of the swing off the fork that is generated. Throw High and Prosper! |
Posted By: J. Baty
Date Posted: 1/16/11 at 11:37am
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Alan, I agree with Duncan. Your 2nd Sheaf toss looked a lot better. Try to get more lift with your legs. You have to lift the bag with your legs when the Sheaf is at its lowest point. The bag should be almost touching the ground. Squat a little lower on your down swing. Using your legs at the right time will really launch the Sheaf.
------------- J.Baty |
Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 1/16/11 at 3:45pm
Brian, that sheaf is not very dense. It's burlap stuffed with straw, not shredded rope, and I sat on it a few times to mash it down, but that's about it. It's MUCH less dense than a Clevenger sheaf, for example. The sheafs you throw with the SAAA are unwound rope, really small and really dense. The thing that Bill said, applies here. I stab the fork into the sheaf halfway down because if I don't, the tail end of the back bumps into the ground. The reason the tines don't come out is that the bag is pretty thick.
However, it's easy to get the fork into this one and the bag releases very easily. Hey, it's what I had on hand to make a practice bag with. ------------- Alan Hebert Geezer-In-Training |