hammer speed
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Forum Name: Throwing Only
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URL: http://www.nasgaweb.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14890
Printed Date: 3/26/26 at 9:51pm
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Topic: hammer speed
Posted By: jsully
Subject: hammer speed
Date Posted: 12/06/11 at 10:35am
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how do you guys speed up the ball when it's behind you? I get really good speed while the ball is in front of me, but from the time it gets behind me until it hits its low point again it slows down. what do you do to prevent this and accellerate the ball as it's behind you? any cues? |
Replies:
Posted By: C. Smith
Date Posted: 12/06/11 at 12:25pm
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How do you speed it up when it's in front of you?
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Posted By: jsully
Date Posted: 12/07/11 at 2:03am
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extremely abbreviated: pushing hips forward, throwing torso back.
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Posted By: Sean Betz
Date Posted: 12/07/11 at 4:43am
| I would say the left hip. |
Posted By: C. Smith
Date Posted: 12/07/11 at 4:50am
Interesting. As a side note, I generated speed by pushing the hips side to side. It works no matter where the ball is. I also push knees forward, not hips. Food for thought... ------------- |
jsully wrote:Posted By: West
Date Posted: 12/07/11 at 5:12am
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Ditto on the knees. When the ball gets behind me, i drive
my knees forward. ------------- Drink to the fame of it, honor the name of it, The Tartan. |
Posted By: jsully
Date Posted: 12/07/11 at 5:46am
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hmm.. interesting is right. Maybe I'm unaware of what I actually do, or maybe I am aware and I'm actually doing it wrong. I'll try to be more conscious about it next time I throw hammers. I took some vid yesterday but didn't have time to edit/upload last night so I'll try to get it up soon for evaluation. |
Posted By: RoadWarrior
Date Posted: 12/08/11 at 2:15am
| Got any video Jake? |
Posted By: Duncan McCallum
Date Posted: 12/08/11 at 7:22am
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MASSIVE bench press = ball speed. Bro.
------------- The man in the arena. |
Posted By: jsully
Date Posted: 12/08/11 at 8:01am
fml vid will be up tonight |
Posted By: Duncan McCallum
Date Posted: 12/08/11 at 8:02am
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Looking forward to it buddy. I always learn something from your vids. ------------- The man in the arena. |
Posted By: jsully
Date Posted: 12/08/11 at 3:21pm
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http://youtu.be/uiX5kAvv0mQ - http://youtu.be/uiX5kAvv0mQ camera died so I didn't get the "good" winds. orbit is getting flat on the 2nd wind.. after I noticed this I fixed it started getting it higher. I'll get more video on saturday. |
Posted By: C. Smith
Date Posted: 12/08/11 at 10:57pm
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Your orbit is flat because of a couple reasons (arms/knees/head). Easy fixes. Something to compare:  vs.  ------------- |
Posted By: Silverback
Date Posted: 12/09/11 at 12:28am
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Jake, have you ever thought you might have a bad hammer? It might not be you. Look at those photos again.
------------- Mule Sportkilt AST Sport Supplements |
Posted By: jsully
Date Posted: 12/09/11 at 1:49am
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craig- maybe it's my inexperience but the comparison photos look nearly identical, though your body position is exaggerated compared to mine which I'm assuming is mainly because you are moving that thing WAY faster than me. In regards to the orbit, I'm pretty sure I fixed it 2-3 throws after this, unfortunately my battery had already died. I'll get more video tomorrow so we can take a better look. With that being said, your thoughts re: speeding the ball up in front of me (hips side to side) combined with seans thoughts re: "left hip" made me realize that I do indeed speed it up side to side. It also made me realize I need to really push off that left leg and push my right knee forward to speed it up when it's behind me. I've got work to do. myles- my pvc is bent from grabbing it at the same spot each time when I set up. outside of that, they photos look the same. I hope I'm not missing something. |
Posted By: Silverback
Date Posted: 12/09/11 at 2:47am
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I hear a thrower was so upset after hammer practice he went and threw his away. Got a new one to see if it went further.
------------- Mule Sportkilt AST Sport Supplements |
Posted By: jsully
Date Posted: 12/09/11 at 3:05am
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lol you know, I thought it might be a joke. But I didn't want to write it off as one since I don't know you that well.. but, now I see... haha |
Posted By: Daniel McKim
Date Posted: 12/09/11 at 3:13am
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In terms of speeding the ball up behind you, I've never
thought of it that way. I think there are multiple ways to throw the hammer successfully, you just have to find what works for you. If you are a side-to-side, shift the hips guy, then pull up some video of Larry Brock and watch him. His hips are so fast and fluid , and he really transfers the speed and power from the body into the ball. If you want a wide, over-arching wind that is long and fast, then pull up video of Pockoski. Mike creates a wide, sweeping orbit that puts him into a great position to really kill the finish. If you are a "lumberjack" and like to chop wood on your right side and really work the right side of the wind, then pull up video of Sean Betz, or even me. I never think of speeding the ball up behind me but, rather, catching it soon so I can drive and push the ball. I want to catch the ball quickly and transition it to my right side as soon as possible, as I feel that's where I generate my speed and power. I honestly learned how to throw hammer from Sean: or the kind of athlete I am, both in personal strengths and makeup, I feel that this type of wind and movement is best for me. I've tried different ways, but I feel I can generate the most power and speed by driving the ball down and "chopping" it and really lifting and blocking the finish. All this being said, I approach the two hammers differently in how I try to speed them up. In the light I try to lean back and really catch is early and flatter on my last wind, while in the heavy I want to keep working it to my right side so I can hit the finish and really block my left side hard (this is another concept I feel many people neglect, but that's for a different discussion). I'm at work, so I can't pull them up right now, but I can for you later if you like. I'll share with you my two best heavy hammer throws: 124'8.5" at Estes this year and 122'8" at St. Louis last year. The St. Louis one is on my YouTube page and the Estes Park one is on Dan Williams page (Wyomann). Maybe these help explain better what I'm trying to say. Great discussion! ------------- http://www.believethrower.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.believethrower.com |
Posted By: C. Smith
Date Posted: 12/09/11 at 3:20am
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http://youtu.be/ATpDUxkLsnM - http://youtu.be/ATpDUxkLsnM http://youtu.be/BcugCyTI99o - http://youtu.be/BcugCyTI99o ------------- |
Posted By: Daniel McKim
Date Posted: 12/09/11 at 4:14am
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Oh, and Sully, there's a difference between your pic and
Craig's. Craig is reaching further back, catching it sooner, creating a bigger, sweeping orbit, and he's back and up on his toes, ready to crush the hammer back around. Throw in the fact Craig has long hair there, and well, you get the point. 
Thanks for the vid posts, too, sir. ------------- http://www.believethrower.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.believethrower.com |
Posted By: Ryan Stewart
Date Posted: 12/09/11 at 9:40am
The guy standing in the back makes Craig look like he has a Carl Braun rat tail.  ------------- John Gallagher- "MASS MOVES MASS" |
Posted By: jsully
Date Posted: 12/09/11 at 5:25pm
| watched the vids, amazing how fast you (Dan) get around to catch the hammer.. going to play with a couple things during practice tomorrow. thanks errbody |
Posted By: TheJeff696
Date Posted: 12/12/11 at 2:47am
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Also important to note Craig's 6 pack sneaking through his shirt. Who wears a sweatshirt in Arizona? ------------- Jeff Kaste "I think there's a Squatch in these woods..." |
Posted By: jsully
Date Posted: 12/12/11 at 5:48am
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lol jeff.. once you get use to 120 degrees, anything under 70 and you put a hoodie/sweatshirt on..
i forgot my camera on saturday so no film, hammers tomorrow, I'll get vid then
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Posted By: Sean Betz
Date Posted: 12/12/11 at 5:59am
Good eye. That is the main reason Dan has killed the hammers the last two seasons, especially the heavy hammer. It is easier to do timing wise in the heavy hammer. If Dan gets his body ahead of the light hammer it's all over, 150+. I believe his body is doing this stuff naturally to get a longer pull on the hammer. That is also why some throwers really get their hips moving . They are reaching for a longer radius and their bodies are doing it naturally to get the distance. That is when you know the hammer will fly.
One athlete to really watch in the hammer is Ryan Vierra. He still holds the American record at nearly 151 feet. I've personally seen him throw 115+, and 140+ more times than I can count. He does alot different things right, all the time. He also isn't exaggerated with his hips or positions. He just builds a ton of speed and has the strength to hold it. Good basic technique to follow for anyone.
Alistair Gunn is also worth watching alot. He maximizes everything. At 5'10", 240, he threw 154' and 124', I think. He really reaches left and right and makes up for his height with speed and a longer orbit.
I personally took alot from watching Sanford and Aitken. I like how Matt sets the ball up with his right side. I really like how Bruce Aitken attacks his second wind. In my opinion, he is the best ever. Most consistent over the longest time. I am lengthy like those two, so that is what I tried doing. Find the throwers you most emulate with your own body type.
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Posted By: mike pockoski
Date Posted: 12/12/11 at 6:15am
+1
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Posted By: dl_buffy
Date Posted: 12/12/11 at 8:51am
One Hundred and Twenty Four Feet...HEAVY hammer?!?!  
Congrats on that throw!
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Posted By: dl_buffy
Date Posted: 12/12/11 at 9:29am
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Interesting, the St Louis vid showed that Dan has a very distinct catch point and pronounced pull from the pivot bottom.
Looking at vids of Ryan and Bruce they have a lot more continual motion. Now I am not as tall as Dan, but I feel I rotate my shoulders more like he does than the other guys. When I try to just layout and keep a long rotation I always fall over.
Interesting...any thoughts on what makes the difference? Body types or just what you train yourself into?
Bruce for comparison - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZMa0xE0CnU" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZMa0xE0CnU
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Posted By: C. Smith
Date Posted: 12/16/11 at 3:26am
Old School.  ------------- |
Posted By: Greg Hadley
Date Posted: 12/16/11 at 6:02am
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To hijack, if I may. Craiger, how can you explain the look you had going on back then? ------------- 7 |
Posted By: Borges
Date Posted: 12/16/11 at 7:03am
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A few things:
1) I find it counter-productive to 'think' about speeding up the ball. The tendency when you think that way is to shorten your radius which is pretty much the worst thing you can ever do. I focus on staying long and relaxed with the upper body, and working the ball with my hips.
2) +1 to everything Dan McKim said. Choose a model that's appropriate to you. We'd all like to be able to throw hammer like Matt in his prime but I think I've met one athlete in my whole life with the skill and power to do what he did and that was Matt. ------------- Cheers, Carlos "Live free or die" |
Posted By: C. Smith
Date Posted: 12/16/11 at 7:54am
lol, the long hair? ------------- |
Posted By: jsully
Date Posted: 12/19/11 at 5:22am
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threw yesterday, I'll get hammer vid up asap.
big problem = pulling the hammer in when it's behind me. blegh.
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Posted By: jsully
Date Posted: 12/20/11 at 12:39am
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biggest problem that I can see is I'm pulling in way too much. I need to really reach out and extend my arms. I'm losing a good foot on my radius. Most of these are just 2 winds, my camera died after the first couple 3 winds because I left it on & recording for 4 hours straight.. lol. I'm throwing stones and hammer today, so I'll get more video and try to fix my radius.
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Posted By: C. Smith
Date Posted: 12/20/11 at 12:51am
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What you are doing is what Chafin does, and we call it the Fonzie. Watch him check his hair here at the beginning, that's what you look like you're doing with the hammer. HEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY. Extend your arms and get your head back. ------------- |
Posted By: phatmiked
Date Posted: 12/20/11 at 3:52am
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lot of good advice and insight in this thread. one thing i realized over the past few years is that you have to avoid interfering with the hammer speeding up. it wants to go fast. get out of its way. to do so you have to be relaxed and work with it. don't force it into anything. it's zen, baby. ------------- |
Posted By: Borges
Date Posted: 12/20/11 at 5:33am
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Start by fixing your start. You stand right up and pull the hammer right up and never establish a path for the hammer coming across in front of you. Watch the first 2 seconds of this God of hammer throwing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZW5YtnlInU" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZW5YtnlInU
He starts by pushing his hips to the left just slightly then sweeps the hammer all the way across the front. The ball doesn't come up until his arms have extended to the left and he can move the ball with his hips. You are popping straight up and turning it into an arm throw which is why you are pulling in. Establish a radius, push the ball with your hips to build speed, throw far. ------------- Cheers, Carlos "Live free or die" |
Posted By: dl_buffy
Date Posted: 12/20/11 at 5:49am
+1 THIS....(now, if only you could force Zen.)
 |
Posted By: jsully
Date Posted: 12/20/11 at 10:16am
| was playing around with hammer today. I found that if I let it get too far to my left I get a pretty flat orbit and it's very hard to stay long. I found that if I let the orbit get ALMOST too far too my left, the hammer just SHOOTS up and I have no choice but to extend. That, coupled with activly pushing my right knee forward was generating a good amount of speed, even will very little effort. Vid tonight. Most of the reps are blegh but a select few are spot on with what I'm saying. |
Posted By: jsully
Date Posted: 12/21/11 at 12:36am
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here is the hammer vid from yesterday. you can see what I'm talking about in the above post regarding letting the ball get too far to my left. If I cut it off and let it ALMOST get too far, it shoots the hammer up and I've got no choice but to get long. At that point I drive my right knee in and I've found that seems to accellerate it back down.. Going to take a lot of reps to get this 100%. Unfortunately, I didn't get all this figured out until my last throw. I put the last one in slow motion so you can see what I mean regarding ball path, extension, etc..
Thanks for everyones help.
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Posted By: Soul Eater
Date Posted: 12/21/11 at 10:45am
| Matt, this Australian fellow I know told me to use a much heavier devise to wind with and keep winding it for as many reps as I could. He also told me slow med and fast winds, that the slow wind sets up the fast wind. But what do I know. |
Posted By: jsully
Date Posted: 2/15/12 at 4:28pm
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after watching a bunch of vids (McKim, Vierra, Price) I'm allowing the ball to get too far behind me. Hard to put into words. I'm putting my arms STRAIGHT up, rather than high and out in front of me. Going to play with this a little on friday.
Please, don't be shy. Feedback is much appreciated both negative and positive.
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Posted By: Sean Betz
Date Posted: 2/16/12 at 12:28am
| Good catch w/ the technique change. That's the best your technique has looked. Put the blades on and go. |
Posted By: stormer
Date Posted: 2/21/12 at 6:46am
| Would not worry how matt threw hammer as ive not seen anyone throw before or since like that, i would slow your top half down and try and to lead the throw from hips/legs , your using to much arms to accelarate the hammer and need to work your left side more. |
Posted By: jsully
Date Posted: 2/22/12 at 3:34pm
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figuring out the whole left side ordeal.. its coming along
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Posted By: dl_buffy
Date Posted: 2/23/12 at 5:43am
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Your pivot point really drifts around in front of you. I try to keep mine off side of my right foot.
1:08, very nice extension! ------------- --------- I have very few social interaction skills, so I just throw stuff instead. |