Stretching is B.S.
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Forum Name: Training
Forum Discription: This forum is for discussion about training for the Scottish Heavy Events.
URL: http://www.nasgaweb.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=15232
Printed Date: 3/26/26 at 7:11pm
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Topic: Stretching is B.S.
Posted By: C. Smith
Subject: Stretching is B.S.
Date Posted: 3/29/12 at 5:25am
| http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/stretching_is_bs" rel="nofollow - http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/stretching_is_bs |
Replies:
Posted By: Sean
Date Posted: 3/29/12 at 7:20am
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He speaks like someone in his mid 20s that just graduated university.
I'll ask his opinion in 15 years when he's a grown up.
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Posted By: C. Smith
Date Posted: 3/29/12 at 7:57am
How much static stretching do you actually do? Not talking SMR/dynamic/PNF/flossing/etc, but actual static stretching. Because I do none based on a lot of the research he used in that article. ------------- |
Sean wrote:Posted By: Kilted Lancer
Date Posted: 3/29/12 at 8:03am
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General consensus around the T/F world is that static stretching has very little use in terms of a warm-up, but often times people will stretch out a bit post-workout. I'd say the large majority of athletes will do a 30-40 minute dynamic warm-up with zero static stretching, and post-workout will consist of a cool down with some rolling...If a certain area has been causing some problems, or becoming very tight post-workout, you might see a bit of static work, but nothing more than 5-10 minutes or so.
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Posted By: dl_buffy
Date Posted: 3/29/12 at 8:14am
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I really really REALLY want to hate that article, but most of the 'findings' I already knew. Also, I have been doing specificity of stretching for decades now. Not sure when I decided that if I am squating, I need to just sit down in a squat for a bit before my lift....but thats what I do. Same with bench, my warm up sets are brought as low to the side of my chest as I can and let to sit there for a moment before pressing up.
As for 'warm up' vs 'stretching'....I am very sure the author is doing a disservice tying those together. Without my rotator cuff exercises to warm up my shoulders, I would NEVER be pressing what I am today. I know this because I spend decades in pain with tweaks. Since that rubber band has gone in my bag I have not hurt after work out yet.
When I stretch it is an active thing, a way to get blood flowing from sitting around all day. My lunges are 'pushed' down toward my ankle as much as I can, my squat stretch is from side to side transferring weight. My hurdler stretch is also a lat and lower back stretch with active participation from my abs and thigh. All of this gets me 'warmed' up to go lift.
Gah...I think I dislike the article because it seems so disjointed. I will keep stretching as part of my warmups thank you. ------------- --------- I have very few social interaction skills, so I just throw stuff instead. |
Posted By: Sean
Date Posted: 3/29/12 at 8:41am
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I do static stretching (after foam rolling and before my lifting) for my quads, hamstrings, glutes and hip flexors. Makes a huge difference on my knee pain. I sometimes stretch after. I DO notice the difference.
Wendler piped in on the comments too. I think if you've got mileage, you need different things. Was that research based on guys with 20 years of experience in strength sports? Probably not.
Different strokes for different folks and YMMV as always, but I'll stick with stretching.
Plus, I looked at that dude and he looks like a fruit. It'd be like taking olifting advice from a Crossfitter. No thanks.
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Posted By: Silverback
Date Posted: 3/30/12 at 12:22am
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Some people just can't squat to parallel? I never ever thought of that before, is it true? Decline bench makes the chest look saggy.
------------- Mule Sportkilt AST Sport Supplements |
Posted By: CHAD
Date Posted: 3/30/12 at 2:19am
Yes. They call them "powerlifters." teehee ------------- ...Josh |
Posted By: C. Smith
Date Posted: 3/30/12 at 2:44am
bwhahahahahahahhahaha  awesome. ------------- |
Posted By: chirolifter
Date Posted: 3/30/12 at 3:03am
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The article has dome great points. I have known for years that static stretching before exercise decreases performance in a muscle- so why on earth people do it is beyond me.. I believe that the foam roller should only be done after working out or comp. Depending how hard your doing it you are creating micro trauma to the muscle- and that being the same as static stretching will decrease performance.. I do static stretch and foam roll after every workout. My static stretches are mostly holding positions for throwing. Thanks for sharing Craig... ------------- "It's what you do when no one is watching that builds character." Gene Flynn |
Posted By: chirolifter
Date Posted: 3/30/12 at 5:04am
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A great addendum to this article http://www.mennohenselmans.com/stretching-is-b-s-addendum/" rel="nofollow - http://www.mennohenselmans.com/stretching-is-b-s-addendum/ ------------- "It's what you do when no one is watching that builds character." Gene Flynn |
Posted By: Hapy
Date Posted: 3/30/12 at 10:35am
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stretching the contracting muscle is bad for performance, however, what about stretching the opposing muscle? I have heard that stretching hip flexors for example, improves vertical jump performance? IMO, stretching can prevent injury, if I have a muscle which is feeling "tight" then properly warming up that muscle and gentle stretching it until it no longer feels tight seems like the right thing to do for me. I just wish I had followed this advice 3 weeks ago when I tore my adductor. ------------- Real Men Wear Purple Tinky Winky Throw Far! http://www.facebook.com/CVTSA" rel="nofollow - Central Vermont Strength Association |
Posted By: M-BAAB
Date Posted: 3/30/12 at 11:15am
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Hapy - I have used that for years for wob - stretch out calves and hip flexors as soon as you finish the previous event. This seems to work for me - you won't really get to snapping muscles for 20-30 mins as the bar climbs to your height. I also do lots of go off in the corner and pop thru the technique to get "fast" again as I wait to come in.
I tend to stretch semi static(short hold) w little ballistic type "bounces" after after EVERY toss. The old guys will remember that was how we were taught to stretch and it changed to static longer holding.
I use my foam roller BEFORE tossing - now this is just 2-4 mins of basic rolling - not trying to grind something out - any experience w this? I makes me feel awesome and ready to go.
Do any of you guys know how long the static stretch decreases performance - is it minutes or hours or tomorrow?
Geez, in football , we static stretched for 20 mins whole body before every practice and 5 mins after. I wonder what they do now? ------------- 51 , 72 and 15 at 50 |
Posted By: C. Smith
Date Posted: 3/30/12 at 12:14pm
Up to 60 minutes. ------------- |
Posted By: Alan H
Date Posted: 4/12/12 at 10:27am
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I figure, for decades....no, more than decades...since practically the Victorian Era, coaches have been having athletes stretch before and after workouts and competitions. Now, in the past ten or fifteen years, along comes some research that suggests that it doesn't help. What clouds the issue is that there is concurrent research that says the opposite, and there's concurrent research that says that in fact static stretching before a strength exercise might result in lower performance, but the difference is very small. I don't want to get in a sh**-fight about it all, but my take on it is that yeah...I'm all for research. But if there's one place where "fads" come and go, it's the world of sports and exercise. You all just love to hate Crossfit, well...that's a fad. Until I see a couple of decades of unequivocal research that tells me that passive stretching before a workout is BAD, BAD, BAD, then I'm going to go with what my body tells me. Four years of running 5-10 miles a day, 3 days a week...I did that, and if I didn't stretch before and after runs, I would hurt. Two seasons ago, in my off-season lifting, I did some squats without stretching, first. I spent the 2009-2010 season in and out of a foam knee support. During the 2010-2011 off-season I passively stretched quads, hammies and adductors before squatting and I didn't get hurt. During the 2011-2012 off-season I stretched quads, hammies and adductors before squatting and DL'ing and I didn't get hurt. I think I'm sticking with 100+ years of accumulated athletic wisdom over a decade of definitely non-unanimous condemnation of passive stretching before workouts. ------------- Alan Hebert Geezer-In-Training |
Posted By: Sean
Date Posted: 4/12/12 at 11:41am
Plus, LOOK at that guy! Douche. 
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Posted By: rogerws76
Date Posted: 5/17/12 at 5:02am
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I thinkk the "performance" issue depends on what you are performing. I played Basketball in college and at the hieight of my leaping ability stretching always gave me aat least a few more inches. Never been a "lifter" but I can see where in strength challenges, over stretching the muscle you need to contract might be a lttle bit of a detractor.
Having said that, I think the older we get, the beneifts of stretching far outweigh the deficits, especially at the end of a day of throwing. If a muscle group gets too tight from fatigue and you don't keep it limber it will degrade "performance" drastically. You gotta be ready for those three throws to count. It's kinda like Toby Keith says, "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once, as I ever was." So you gotta maximise that once (or 3X) on Game day! :) ------------- Roger |
Posted By: rwwillia
Date Posted: 5/22/12 at 2:39pm
| This has been an arguement for years. If you read the research that is for stretching, there make reasonable arguing points. The same goes for the research that opposes stretching as well. From personal experience, I participated in a research project in college that looked at how performance was effected with static stretching, a warm up and both together. The results showed that a warm up and stretching used together improved performance. There is also a psychological effect to static stretching. It is similar to meditation. The time used during stretching can allow you to focus, clear your mind, calm the nerves, etc. Whatever your oppinons on stretching, the style of stretching or when to stretch, there is one fact that everyone should know. Stretching=Flexibility and Flexibility=Reduced chance of injury. |
Posted By: C. Smith
Date Posted: 5/22/12 at 11:30pm
Not really fair to correlate flexibility solely with static stretching. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21969080" rel="nofollow - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21969080
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Posted By: Sammy68123
Date Posted: 5/23/12 at 1:32am
Performance at what? What was/were the outcome measure(s)? Also, was there a control group who did neither intervention? If you don't know, okay. But the outcome measure of "improved performance" is pretty broad and vague. Do you know if the research study was published somewhere? Teresa Merrick, Ph.D. Bellevue, NE
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Posted By: C. Smith
Date Posted: 5/23/12 at 1:36am
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I wasn't even going to bring it up, but ya, ^^ that.
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Posted By: brandell
Date Posted: 5/26/12 at 9:52am
BOOM! ------------- |
Posted By: Nathan Parker
Date Posted: 6/01/12 at 8:23pm
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Some people WON'T squat to parallel, and then count it. Meatball at gym...looking at you!
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