Hey-

Do you all recommend the mixed grip?

Are there any concerns about bicep tendon on the supinated side?

-Back2Basics

1 reason for being "weak" off the floor for a lot of people is that their shoulders are too far in front of the bar.  Once the bar is high enough it very easy to lean back and get your weight into it.  It's not so easy to do that off the floor.

Another option, one which I wouldn't know unless I saw you, is that you have weak glutes and/or hamstrings.  I know that sounds a little crazy since you pull well from up higher but what I've learned is that when guys pull from up high the start with their hips already pushed though and then just straighten their legs to get the weight up.  Making it more of a quarter squat than a high pull.  Again I couldn't know with out watching but that's my guess. 

Hapy, if you're sticking off the floor, try sinking a bit lower at the start and keeping your shoulders behind the bar. It's your hamstrings that will get that thing moving. In the past, low box squats with lots of band tension have helped me get through that.

As many fingers as you can get over the thumb is good. One is fine, two is fine.

As shown http://www.marunde-muscle.com/fitness/askem_hook_grip.html - here , there is no such thing as too small of a hand to hook grip.

Gnome, Gillingham pulls close to 900 with an over hand grip.  Lose the straps and your body will adapt.  Have you tried switching your in the reverse grip?

Hapy, come to my house for a deadlift workout sometime.  Until then, try this. I pull in 2 phases.  1) I look down at the floor, at a 45 degree head posture and I push my feet into the floor, almost wedging myself under the bar. Keep the bar close to your shins.  My goal is to get the bar to my knees. 2) Once the bar crosses my knees I slam my hips forward to finish.  Look up Benedickt Magnusson on some of his deadlift blogs.  That is the way I pull and this may help you.  If you sit back and use more legs that may help, (this is the Drew Hickey method), but you will be limited by how much you squat (Drew can squat a ton). Keep the rep range in the 1 to 3's for multiple sets this time of year.  If you want I can post or send a deadlift routine cycle that I got from Mark Phillipi.   

Wayne, Sean-

Thanks, I'm at a point in my season where I'm past my focus events (Nationals and Worlds), and am thinking about foundation work. 

I admit to being a novice with the deadlift. However, I've tried both a clean grip and a mixed grip, with/without straps, with/without wraps and with/without a belt. I haven't experienced any thrills from the darn thing yet, but am willing to give it a few more months of work.

Tonight I went with Sean's advice to start pulling with the hook in a pronated grip. I can stand it up to about 250lbs, past that it just distracts me too much. I finished with my normal clean grip up to 375lbs with no, no, no. Would like to get into the 400 club! 

And the grip was my limiting factor. I've done more with straps, of course,  but am trying to get over it. I kinda like just going naked,... but with just a little chalk. 

Thanks again,

-KR188 

unless your in a powerlifting meet you dont need to use that stupid grip. what event is it that you pick something up like that at a games, is that how you pick up your laundrey basket when you have to do the laundry because you threw so shitty at the last games your wife says thats all your good for!!!!!

[oh!! i'm sorry i just got caught up in something that happend to a friend once not ME]

save a bicep just use an overhand grip, deadlifts are bad enough on the tendons and ligaments without that stupid grip ask someone who lost one that way[inside tendon left arm surgeon said there was no reason to fix it]

Skullsplitter wrote: Hapy, come to my house for a deadlift workout sometime.

Ok, Bill, count on it - I really need to improve my technique in my lifting, not just deads, but squats, bench, and olympic also. Figure a nice bottle of Scotch we can share afterwards would be good payment for the coaching

MasterDeadlifter,

If you haven't been pulling much then you'll be in the 400 club in no time due to practice alone.  And now that its "off season" I know you won't be 188 for long.  So that will help too.

DynamicLifter

Hey-

Interesting, ... not much consenus but lots of passion.

Jayster- you asked what event do you pick something up with that grip at a games? That made me think.

I do pick up cabers (when I'm by myself) to put them away with a mixed grip. I find the middle, squat, hands on each side, ... then clean em. You are right, its not really part of the competition. However, when I am faced with a big caber its the only way to pick it up. 

Why do you emphasize the straps? or did you mean wraps?

-K

or maybe even gloves in the games!!,i only use straps to pull more weight grip strength is not an issue with me.

7th man in the world to close the #3 ironmind grippers and hope to close the #4,s sometime in 2007

Gman-

Aye, maybe you missed it above, but ... I'm working on deadlifts without straps, wraps or belts, ... only chalk.

It appears that my grip is limiting me to sub-400lbs.

Say I did a workout of 10 sets including 5-7 singles up around +90%1RM, how often should I go back? How many days or whatever between deadlift workouts?  

-K   

Marry a 400lb+ woman and pull her around by the hair.  If that doesn't make you tougher, nothing will.

Geisler-

Wow, that's an idea!

But why would I have to marry her?

-K

AncientOne wrote: It appears that my grip is limiting me to sub-400lbs. Say I did a workout of 10 sets including 5-7 singles up around +90%1RM, how often should I go back? How many days or whatever between deadlift workouts?

I gairawntee I could have you lifting 400 lbs or more in one session.

Most people will say that you should DL once a week, and that you should max only very occasionally (but you aren't maxing if you're grip-limited).  Then there are those that claim to max once a week, which I think strains the definition of "max".

-Wayne

The first thing you need to do is find a good pair of shoes...flat hard rubber soles...a good pair of tight socks to keep the calfs warmed up...decent knee wraps...tight enough to stop sideways motion but loose enough to allow flexing...a comfortable pair of shorts...snug in the hips but room for the legs to move...not too long because they'll catch on the knees...a solid belt...velcro ones are pretty good because it allows you pull it as tight as you can...a sleeve-less shirt to allow proper shoulder rotation...head band, wrap, or cap to stop the sweet from dripping into your eyes...elbow wraps to keep the bicep attachment point warm and to not allow over-extension...strong wrist wraps and a good covering of chalk...then...and here's the key...GET THE HELL OUT OF THE GYM AND STICK TO JAZZERCISE!! None of this stuff will ever help if you're not strong to begin with...just pick the GD weight up!

My 2 cents for what it's worth...

Kev-

Keep hookin' it.  Once I started hookin' I never looked back. You'll get used to it in about a month.  When I first started training with Sean I was using straps and he politely snickered at me so I dropped them.  My grip was then an issue so he taught me the hook grip.  I did it and told him that it hurt like h#ll.  He said (with a look on his face) that some people just can't do that grip.  Translation, "You can puss out if you want to but real men take the pain and get used to it."   Needless to say I didn't want to look any weaker than I already was compared to Sean so I hunkered down and suffered through it.  The 2nd week was the worst.  I felt all bruised up in my thumb but by the 3rd week it got better.  By the 4th week I couldn't tell the difference between 225 and 405.  My best with the hook is a partial dead from right at my knees with 630.  It hurt a little and my thumbs were flat at the end but it was worth it to see the shaved up bodybuilders wondering how I was hanging on to that kind of weight with no straps.  

Sorry for the long post but the babies are taking a nap and I've got some time to kill.  That and I feel pretty strongly about the hook grip.  I would not have done it with out the "encouragement" from Sean but I'm glad I did now.

You need me to offer some "encouragement"?

-Tim

GMan-

I see your point about getting more out of deads with bigger weights, but I take Sean's suggestion to mean - hook grip while deadlifting without straps is a good way to improve my throwing, ... and I won't argue with him. Your approach may differ from his and its obvious that we all improve while taking slightly different paths. In fact, I may even find a union between several of these different techniques to improve both my lifting totals and throws. I'm a self-coached lifter and thrower, ... so I'm on my own in this stuff, ... and it probably shows. 

I obviously haven't found the passion that many of you have for this lift and maybe I've set my sights to low, but now is the time.

Tim- Dang, ... 630lbs. That's impressive.

-KR188

You can always go with a regular double overhand grip until it becomes an issue and then switch to the hook. This will build your grip strength without limiting the poundage on your back.

Oh, by the way Jayster, congrats on closing the #3.  If you can close the #4 let us know.  I would want to shake your hand.  Or maybe not, I want to keep my fingers.

Hi Guys, need to jump in from the other side of the pond.  I'm very suprised that no one has mentioned building into the deadlift.  PULLS are the most efficient for building back and hip strength for throwing.  Start of concentrating on your olympic lifts and their supports, do power snatches, power cleans, high pulls with both hand spacings, from the floor and from the hang.  Use weights your comfortable with and build up as you go.  Use a hook grip for all these.  You grip will increase in strength as will your back and hips. The only thing is to tape your thumbs and use chalk, this really increased grip strength.

Once you reach good numbers on the pulls using good form and speed then look towards deadlifts.  This is a slower lift with less carryover to explosive sports.

Unfortunately I ruptured both biceps doing a car roll.  Then tore the right one off the bone on a light hammer throw in NZ. THis year was repair time for the left.  I have rehabed both times doing this.  Always suing the hook grip overhand and building on the pulls before adding deadlifts.  If possible use the same or similar body position for your pulls as for deadlifts. I also agree that everyone has different positions dependant on body type.

CraigJR-

Am with you on the pulls with cleans and snatches and high pulls from the hang and the deck. These are way more fun to me than the deadlift, but this line of thought started with simply a question about the deads since some guys here are quite expert on the lift and I wanted to hear about the suggestion for the mixed grip.

Too bad about the car roll-over. Hope you are able to recover.

Good luck in your rehab,

-Kevin

Hi Kevin

Rehab is going well. I was never a good deadlifter until I started to do pulls. This allowed me to find a good position to pull from and I feel more confident in this position.  From there my deadlift has improved. Originally i used the mixed grip but as stated now just the hook grip.  I seem to be able to keep the bar in nice and close with the hook but would twist a bit with the mixed grip

Hapy,

Those attempts look good. I always would start very conservatively. Jack the second attempt up a good amount. Go for a PR on the last attempt.

Where and when is the contest?

OK, I was able to eek out a win over the 96lb woman!!!

Squat 175kg (388lb)

Bench Press 85KG (188lb)

Deadlift 197.5KG (438lb)

went at 215kg on my last dead attempt, and broke it to my knees, but ran out of gas and couldnt lock it out.  I used the overhand hook grip, and was very surprised at how little pain there was - with that extra inch or so, breaking from the ground was much easier also.

Mike Berby did indeed break the American record in the Bench Press in RAW powerlifting.  I think he got 151kg, but maybe 155kg, I can't remember.

Can't say that I am ready to hang up my kilt for Powerlifting, but had a good time testing my body in this competition.

Congratulations well done.  Will you keep with the overhand grip now???

Last weekend I did my first DL workout reversing my grip as per Skullsplitters suggestion.  I didn't go over 400lbs, but I didn't notice much difference in grip strength.  However, I did notice alot less soreness where my previously damaged biceps tendon attaches.  (Hapy, I'm going to ask another question and would like your opinion on it)