I continue to struggle and get demotivated with the issue of getting enough protein in my day - Being poor lately has made my grocery budget a little pathetic. But first I figured I'd ask how much it matters. I figured there are more functionally strong people on this board than most other places and you all can share what it took you to get there.

To support about 220 - 250 minutes a week of hard lifting in 3 sessions - what do people think of this issue? My positive and inspired focus in the weight room gets shaken a little when I worry that I can't afford to eat enough to make any progress with the weights.

We've all heard the equation a gram per pound of body weight but 275 grams a day is a lot of $ at the grocery store. Can a lifter hope to get to the next level with only 100 to 150 grams a day (between food and whey).

I am trying to pursue the Russian Front Squat routine squatting 3x week (just for a little while Zolk). Will I ever get anywhere further than I already have without eating 6 chicken breasts a day?

Will,

Your protein intake should be maintained.  That said, allow me to offer these few tid-bits.

Beans are cheap and offer great protein (in various forms).  If you have problems with gas, just take a 'Beano' before the meal.

Also, buy WHOLE chickens and cut them up yourself.  Much cheaper that way.

Do you have a local fish market?  If so, go to the DOCKS and get fish directly from the fishermen.  You can buy as many as you can carry and freeze them.  They will usually last 3-4 months with no problems.

I hope this helps.

Will,

Retire and take up running. The food is cheaper. I can go out to eat and spend less than $20 now.

Hi Will,

The bigger problem is the absorbtion of protein in the body. The body can only use about 30-40 grams of protein at a sitting...any more just passes through the body taxing the kidney. That being said, the other problem is that absorbtion rate is different depending on the foods you eat. The body will take all the protein from an egg and everything else is usually compared to that...PER%. Eggs are cheap and easy to cook, whip up some scrambled eggs many times a day. Next has to be beef, plain and simple...beef has the essential aminos and pure creatine. How many of you guys always feel stronger after eating steak for a week? I eat red meat at least once a day and eggs at least twice a day...and I throw in some Cocoa Puffs just to mess with Skullsplitter's mind. Poultries OK and beans/legumes are below that, around 50% I think. Protien substitutes are good but they should be just that...substitutes. The body needs food to grow and get stronger. One of the best pieces of advice I ever heard was...There's no such thing as over-training, just under-eating. Eat my friend...EAT!!

but if I am counting...will 150 grams of 75-95% absorbed protein cut it at a 275 BW?

will barron wrote: but if I am counting...will 150 grams of 75-95% absorbed protein cut it at a 275 BW?

Tool.

Lots of different opinions on that...I've always tried to stick to around 1 gram per every "lean" lb of bodyweight. Then split that up to 30-40 grams per sitting. Your protein intake should remain constant throughout the day and carbs should decrease during the day...so basically more calories in the morning, less at night. There is no magic formula, you need to experiment and find what works for your body and your metabolism.

Eat my friend...EAT!!

Erik, that is music to my ears.

nesa wrote: The bigger problem is the absorbtion of protein in the body. The body can only use about 30-40 grams of protein at a sitting...any more just passes through the body taxing the kidney.

I agreed with most of what you said, but absorption depends on a lot of factors when you mix in fat, carbs, and fiber.  I'd go with the body might only absorb ~40 grams of whey at one sitting, but I haven't seen any real studies that just pin pointed how much protein can be absorbed at one sitting.  Also, too much of anything converts to fat storage, it doesn't just pass through the system.  And typically taxation of the kidneys happens when a person is suffering from renal problems to begin with.

However,  I agreed with most of what you said.

Aside from that-there were some good points.  Eggs are cheap.  Whole rotiserie chickens are cheap, specially if you get them after the deli closes.  Milk is a great source and whey protein is cheap these days.  3-4 meals+1-2 proten shakes should get you in your protein consumption area needed easily.

Don's correct.  I started out the off-season not really focusing on the amount of protein...I was in the 300 grams a day and my training felt okay...then, I increased it to just over 400 grams per day...here's my daily routine:

Early Am - when I awake:

Shake 50gram w/ water or just started to mix with egg whites...taste really good that way. 

Morning - My breakfast with the kids

12 oz 100% egg whites 40gram (I get this stuff by the gallons for cheap)

Later morning:

Shake 50g

Lunch:

Double meat subway sand. or other equivalent around 40-50g

Mid afternoon:

More egg whites and some ham of other meat cheese  or something equivalent 50 to 60g

Before my workout:

Shake 50g

Post workout about 2.5 to 3 hours:

Shake 50g 

Dinner about an hour later:

Whatever the wife cooks 40g typically...its usually fatty and good, so I don’t complain much about some good home cookin.

Bedtime about 2-3 hours later:

Shake 50g

(I will easily consume over a gallon of water throughout the day as well)

Once I added the increased protein my lifts have gone through the roof and my recovery has dramatically improved...my body weight also climbed to an all-time high this time of year to 326lbs right now...and I don’t see it stopping, especially with 4 more weeks of heavy lifting still in my plans...oh well, as long as I feel good, and I do...the best in my career...go figure. 

I just eat what I like....the above is what I like eating while training at my current volume and intensity.

But, as usual, this routine will stop once the season starts due to the increased traveling.  

Will, I buy my protein online for cheap as well...I found my whey protein for $16.00 for 5lbs at a clearance price.  You can find deals all the time...you just need to keep checking regularly.  My 100% Egg whites I get for $140.00 for equivalent to 650 eggs and that’s delivered to my door step. 

My first meal of the day is 2 cans of tuna and 2 cups of OJ inthe blender-yum!

That coupled with 1 gallon of milk a day.

Total amount of protein: Approx. 214 g.

Cost: under $7.00

*shakes head*

You are a Pro athlete.  Get a supp sponsor.

Ryan Vierra wrote: Once I added the increased protein my lifts have gone through the roof and my recovery has dramatically improved...my body weight also climbed to an all-time high this time of year to 326lbs right now...and I don’t see it stopping, especially with 4 more weeks of heavy lifting still in my plans...

Ryan,

Thank you for sharing the details of your off-season diet with us.  Are you also able to share some of your current lifting stats with us?  I am sure many of us would be interested in knowing what someone of your calibre and experience is lifting in the gym and which lifts you focus on.

Sincerely,

Peter Ingleton.

For interest if nothing else, check out this series of articles written by the guy who designed powerlifter Garry Frank's nutrition plan (his nutrition plan - the author is not a doctor).  There is clearly a fair amount of self-promotion in the articles, but also some info at least worth thinking about or incorporating into your own schedule in a modified way.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/anthony27.htm - http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/anthony27.htm

A good rule of thumb is to try and get as much of your protein in from "real" food sources as possible. There are fast acting and slow acting protein-basically gives you an idea of how quickly the body can break them down for absorption.

I would use shakes and bars sparingly, especially if you don't have a supp. sponsor. Good protein is expensive unless you buy in major bulk.

Wholesale meat and fish with a freezer is always good.....

and yes, that morning shake is good!

Peter,

Here’s a rough outline of a weeks workout with some exception and variations (I am always looking to improve, so exceptions and variations are a big part of what I do in my training.) ….As you can see below I am not reinventing the wheel but, I feel I have developed the ideal combination of lifts plus reps and sets to coincide with the throw more efficiently.  From week to week I drastically changing up the reps and sets to not allow the body to get complacent...I like to always keep the body adapting to the new stresses…this is how my body gets stronger and more explosive faster.    

We are Cycling our workouts 4 weeks on 1 week off w/ a Mini Cycle thrown in there on occasions…see below

Day 1 Workout:

Morning AM Drilling: Added these back with the volume from my early days and feel these have made a huge increase in the feeling of my throws thus far. 

Center Pivot---------------------5x10

Step-over-----------------------5x10

South Africans w/ reverse----- 5x5

Line drills------------------------10x5

                                                175 I am working towards the 250 – 300 reps range right now. 

PM Lifting:

Power Snatch

Jump Shrugs (6” or 12” Blocks)

Snatch Hi-Pulls (12”)

Core Crushers

Core Med-Ball stuff

Day 2 Workout:  

Morning AM Drilling:  Same stuff

PM Lifting:

Full Squats, Box Squats or Band Squats

Front Squats, Box FS or Band FS

Step-ups

Single leg Squats w/ back leg up

Core Med-ball stuff

Day 3:  Upper Body stuff- when I feel like doing that stuff, which is not often.  I’ll use this day for drills primarily. 

Day 4: 

Morning AM Drills

PM Lifting:

Power Cleans

Behind the Neck Jerks

Hex Bar Deadlifts

Core Crushers – If I am not thrashed from the above

56 drill pulls

Day 5:  Throwing & Drilling

Here’s a good Nervous System shocker for those looking for something new to try out.  Here’s what I did last week and I am still feeling it today.

Mini-Cycle (1 week only) 

12x2 @ 75% of your 1RM w/ only 45sec rest between sets (strict time)

Day 1: Monday

Power Snatch: 12x2 @ 215lbs

Hex Bar Jump Shrugs (6”): 12x2 @ 545lbs

Day 2: Tuesday

Squats: 12x2 @ 545lbs

Front Squats: 12x2 @ 415

Day 3: Thursday

Power Cleans: 12x2 @ 240lbs

Hex Bar Deadlifts: 12x2 @ 525

Day 4: Friday

Hex Bar Jump Shrugs (12”): 12x2 @ 545lbs (just for fun and a warm-up for the B.N.J)

Behind the Neck Jerks: 12x2 @ 355lbs

This is a very tough week of lifting, but once you finish the week out you will like them. Mike, this is right up your alley.

M-BAAB , THE Westsiders/Dave Tate got me on the Big Protein ( 1.5 per lb of bd wt). The Big Bed time blast as noted by Myles is Key.  I'm at 8x50 grams per day. Try the Iso Pure product- great product.

Ryan,

Many thanks for your post.  It is very helpful to hear what the top guys (top guy in this case) are actually doing! 

I have two small questions if you are in the mood to share.  First, is there a particular reason you do the Jump Shrugs before the Snatch High Pulls, as it is most common to perform lighter and more explosive lifts earlier in the program?  Is this simply because your focus is on the first two lifts, or perhaps you switch the order of the lifts around somewhat from week to week?

Second, what advantage/purpose is there in hitting 2-3 major leg movements hard during a single workout?  I understand that this is only taking place once a week, and obviously your work capacity is much, much greater than mine, but that's still a ton of specific leg work on one day and I am just curious what in your very extensive experience has lead you to do this as opposed to do, say, back squats on one day and front squats on another day the same week, or to alternate them from week to week, or whatever?

Again, many thanks for sharing your experience and hard-earned wisdom.

Peter.

Ryan Vierra wrote:   Day 4: Friday Hex Bar Jump Shrugs (12”): 12x2 @ 545lbs (just for fun and a warm-up for the B.N.J)

WOW, that is some "warm-up"!!!

Mike…compared to your routine this should be a snap…but I have to say that the 45sec is the killer ingredient here…the 75% weight feels good about halfway through then the pain sets in…then after that you have to do it again in another lift…but with that said, you will feel great after its all over.   Usually after a week of these my system really gets fired up and sets me up for bigger strength gains for the next heavy strength cycle…which starts next week.  This absolutely kills your nervous system, so make sure you take in adequate rest several days after this week…that’s very important.   Give it a go…you will like. 

Peter,

Q1:

I like to focus primarily on the Snatch & Jump Shrugs on this day, but the order changes depending on the layout of my equipment that day to speed things up….so it really doesn’t matter that much. 

Q2:

I like to kill my legs early in the week, so I have them fresh for throwing on Sat or Sun.  When I leave day 2 my legs are completely hammered, and all muscle groups were worked extensively.  I have had great success with this routine, and my overall strength development has never been better…I feel better now than I did 10yr. ago… I am also stronger than any other time in my career...so, the new philosophy must be working…

To answer your q: Time was the deciding factor in combining all the leg lifts into one day, because of the volume of my program…if you can take on that type of volume then I think it is more beneficial to hit the legs early and hard.       

Protein is for losers.

Go with high saturated and transfat foods that have high sugar content.  Doughnuts, yes doughnuts!!!

They work for Homer Simpson

There is nothing like squatting on a full stomach of Dunkin D's.

not to hijack the board- (sorry Will and everyone else).

Ryan-

Do you ever jump shrug with a barbell (vs hex bar)? If so, how deep do you go before you begin the pull (below knee cap, mid thigh, etc)? Do you try to get airborne with every weight used?  

Thanks,

Greg,

I used to use a straight bar years ago and the way I did them was pulling off the floor with from snatch grip.  I would pull off the floor slow to fast keeping the arms locked out at all times driving up on to may toes and then finish the movement with a shrug…then drop the bar to the ground and repeat.  Very similar to a snatch Hi-Pull but with out the elbows and wrist breaking.    

With the Hex Bar it allows you to explode vertically (and get airborne)while keeping the weight centered over the hips.  Symmetrically, and if done properly, its one of the most valuable lifts you can do to mimic the throws for the heavy events….of course, that’s only my opinion.         

So much has been said, not much to add but...

Casein proteins before bed.  Whey digests to fast. 

That is all.

Hey Ryan,

  Noticed that you do the single legged squats with the back leg up. I was wondering why you chose to do it, and what you like to focus on when you do (strength, explosiveness- general pointers I guess). I ask because it's not an excersise I've seen a lot of guys do.

Yeah Tim, I heard that as well...sometimes I eat about 8oz of cottage cheese with a shake before I hit the hay...good stuff. 

Ryan Vierra wrote: Yeah Tim, I heard that as well...sometimes I eat about 8oz of cottage cheese with a shake before I hit the hay...good stuff.

That's perfect.  Cottage cheese would be the best whole food choice.  Especially since it's not exactly easy to find a good casein protein powder.  You can do it but it's a little more pricey.

Here's a gross sounding but good eating recipe for pre-bed time:

1/2 cup lowfat cottage cheese

2 tbsp flax meal

1 tbsp natural peanut butter

1 scoop chocolate whey/casein protein mix

Splenda, to taste

Cals = 364

Protein = 44

Carbs = 14 (5 fiber, 6 sugar)

Fat = 16 (4 SFA, 6 MUFA, 5 PUFA, 2.2 omega-3, 2,8 omega-6)

It looks funky too but it's gooooood.

Mike,

I will leave any comments re protien requirements etc to others, but as a 40 year old I have three fairly simple and probably fairly obvious observations.

1) It is easier to gain weight, or at least fat, when you are 40 than when you were 20, which has some implications for your diet.

2) Generally speaking, your recuperation takes longer when you are around 40 than when you were 20-25, which has some implications for your training schedule (i.e. you can't work out as hard as often, and will overtrain or more likely get injured if you try to do so for an extended period).

3) It is easier to injure yourself at 40 than at 20, and if (when) you get injured, it takes longer to recuperate.

So be smart in how you schedule your training, make sure you warm-up, warm-down, and stretch after your workouts, always use proper technique, and while it's obviously important to push yourself in the gym, it is MUCH more important that you avoid getting injured.  Trust me on this one.  The benefits of that one extra questionable rep or PR on your 1RM is nothing compared to the downside of not working out at all for 2-3 weeks or having a nagging injury for the season (or even the rest of your life).  So have fun, work hard, but be smart about it.  That's one of the benefits of being 38++ compared to 18-20.

What about glutamine?  I like about 20 grams at bedtime with the protien.  Last night saw a bannana, half pound cake, about 30 oz of milk and yogurt.  I have a couple of sleeves of powdered donuts for tonight HB.  I still have trouble keeping poundage, so I need the calories before bed.  Anyone else love to swill the milk, I love it.

In regard to aging and injury, I would find out what I am doing and do the opposite.  I seem to hurt myself a lot. 

Coach Mac wrote: Combining a lot of STARCH and PROTEIN would be equivalent to putting a rag in your carb...NOT good for assimilation but pushing the car would be for your leg's...LOL

Coach,

I don't think I'm understanding you here.  Starch (aka carbs) are directly correlated to raising insulin.  Raising your insulin would help to shuttle in nutrients (sometime this is good, sometimes not).  I don't get how combining carbs with protein could hinder the absorption of protein.  Am I missing something in your post?  I've usually combined either proteins and carbs or proteins and fats with very good results.  Please, elaborate.

Tim

Peter Ingleton wrote: ... and while it's obviously important to push yourself in the gym, it is MUCH more important that you avoid getting injured.

Damn straight!!!!! Listen to your body, it usually tells you what you need to hear (but not necessarily what you want to hear).

Oh yeah, if you want to put on weight try:

I have been using a great blend protein from At Large Nutrition called Nitrean.  Great taste to the chocolate.  Very affordable.  Check out a product they have called ETS.  You talk about muscle and joint recovery.  Unbelievable! 

http://www.atlargenutrition.com - www.atlargenutrition.com

I know that Jesse Marunde of Strongman fame eats strictly grass fed beef -

you can read a little about it I think at his website marundemuscle.com

Hey-

I recommend Jimbo's Jumbos Rajun Cajuns - high in protein and cholesterol free!

-K 

Got suckered in.  Losing weight....read posts...up my protein intake...feel great in gym....number now higher on my scale.

Thanks.

Protein:  When I really concentrated on getting 30-40 grams every 3 hours or so (shooting for about 200g a day) my lifts went up, my energy went up, I gained muscle and lost fat.

I too use Nitrean from At Large Nutrition and love it.

When we were stationed in Omaha, my folks would give us some grass fed beef (black angus) for our anniversary gift every year...I absolutley love it!  If you can scrap together the coin and have a large freezer, buy a cow, have it slaughtered and butchered.  You can also try and find somebody else in your area to go in halfsies on it.  

Don't forget about big game venison, black bear, etc....mmmmm, good.  And cheap too!