Okay, now I have a question/topic for discussion.

Many HG athletes (myself included) believe push presses are a very valuable exercise.  Fair enough. 

However, some HG athletes and some T&F throwers believe jerks are not so valuable for throwers because after the initial push phase they involve dropping under the bar, which is not consistent with how one throws.

BUT, the East Germans and others believed jerks were one of the most important movements.  (These were often done behind the neck, but that's a detail, and not a movement I would do unless you are sure you have very healthy shoulders or you just do lots of singles and drop the weight in front.  Although these generate lots of power, the potential for hurting your shoulders when lowering heavy weights behind your neck is just too great to be worth the risk IMHO.)

So, do you believe that jerks should not be included in a throwers program because they involve dropping under the bar, or do you feel this point is irrelevant, or at least offset by the greater weights that can be used and greater power that is generated in the jerk compared to the push press?  Why?

I think one of the important parts of the jerk that a lot of people over look is the plyometric effect when the athlete snaps under the bar, the eccentric phase to stabilize the bar. Also the quick drop prior to the shove, great reversal strength required to do properly. I am not so good at it, my best jerks is only 308x3 behind the neck 10 years ago. The only reason I did it was because our woman thrower Lisa Misipeka (3 time olympian) did that weight right before me, and I could not stand to be beaten by a girl. Ego, the most powerful performance enhancer.

Bert

My understanding (which could be totally wrong) for the East German inclusion of the jerk, as well as the split snatch, was to help develop the block for the glide shot.  Perhaps someone with more knowledge could confirm or deny my understanding.

I agree that the risks of lowering the bar behind the neck overwhelm the benefits, fortunately I have access to jerk boxes that I use to lower push presses and jerks.

Rick

Peter,

Sorry about not getting back with you on the PM, but hopefully this will suffice. 

I look at the Jerk the same way Bert mentioned in his post…more of a plyometric movement.  The B.N Jerk is one of the primary lifts that I like to gauge my explosiveness and overall power output.  I also use Jerk Boxes…a must if you plan to go heavy and with out two spotters to assist the weight back down to your shoulders….otherwise, I agree, that the benefits don’t out weigh the risk…the one thing that I was fortunate to have learned early in my career was to recognize the risk to reward factor when it comes to the iron game…thrower first, lifter second…this should always be the THROWERS creed.

Behind the neck jerks are a great exercise. If you don't have jerk boxes and want to go heavy then follow the lead of Ricky Bruch in that great video of his. Take the loaded bar out of the rack, jerk it, drop it to the floor, strip the weights, put the bar back in the rack, load the bar, repeat...

Okay, so although there are still a few people I really hope will share their thoughts on this issue, it looks like most people agree the jerk is a valuable exercise, despite the drop under the bar, especially the Behind-the-Neck variety. 

However, while I fully understand that that particular variety both allows one to use more weight and allows one to get into a better/stronger position more easily, if you don't have jerk boxes and don't generally want to do a bunch of singles (and have to reload the bar each time etc.), is there any reason the front jerk variety is not an acceptable alternative?

Doing anything vertically explosive is always an acceptable alternative front or back...which ever position allows you to move as fast and explosive as you can is always the best choice.

Ryan Vierra wrote:   Doing anything vertically explosive is always an acceptable alternative front or back...which ever position allows you to move as fast and explosive as you can is always the best choice.

I'm going to give that an Amen. Too often I think people look at force curves and it won't help etc. The jerk will make you explosive as anything.

I also believe for glide putting that the push press has more value than the bench.

Okay, here is a related question:

When and how do you incorporate jerks vs. push presses into your programme?  For example, do you do push presses earlier in the year and jerks during the preseason, jerks on your heavy day vs. push presses on your lighter day, cycle the two exercises every 2-4 weeks, or what?

Thanks again for the input.

p.s. Big MAC - your inbox is full.

I don't do push presses anymore as I'm not training for throwing. But I would be doing jerks and push presses both once per week. Maybe cycle variations in and out, but I can't see reasons that one would do one at the expense of the other.

Peter, deleted all the messages.