Another post taken from The Ring.  The context was a question about snatch/squat ratios.  A previous post had noted that L. Jay Silvester ("LJ") at "6' 2.5" and 250 lbs., in his prime, snatched 265 lbs. and squatted 620. I am uncertain what style he used in either".

For most of us, the significance of the numbers at the bottom is the approximate ratios between the lifts, with most being relatively higher on the squats and lower on the snatches and perhaps cleans.  The ratios are a good indication of what your priorities should be in terms of lifting.

Brad-

A quick calculation of LJ gives him 42.7% ration of Snatch to B. Squat.  I did mine quickly- 319 Snatch and 770 B. Squat or more importantly 41.4% ratio- pretty comparable. Now before the question is asked- my Squat as I assume LJ's was with knee wraps and high bar. My best with belt only and true high bar Olympic Style was 660- or 48.3%.

If we are going to quantify and give some younger throwers some perspective- I would think establishing 50% or better would at least be a nice goal. My concept would be that the Snatch is much better at determing success than the Squat- now if I could have told myself that years ago, I might have thrown better.

Bondarchuk once gave me these numbers for 80+ meter success-

Snatch 300
Clean 400
F. Squat 500
B. Squat 600

I think the F. Squat would give most people trouble in this ratio.

Jud's follow-up post to the one copied above:

I will show my age....but Paul Harvey use to say, "And now the Rest of the STORY"

1) First off, Coach B, after learning my weight room numbers, replied this is way strong enough to throw well over 80 meters. So the jist was, the 3-4-5-6 ratio was the high end of where "I" needed to be. Not something he was pontificating for his throwers to achieve 80+.

2) Glenn is right on by stating for the most part- evryone that has thrown 80 or better is very capable of those numbers- some lower (Sedyk), some pretty much right at (Koji/ Deal) and many exceeding (Myself, Tibor, Astapkovich, Abduvialiev, Haber, Kiss, Flax and many more.

3) Many great throwers made up for so called weight room short comings with other things they brought to the table- Nikulin (3.50 SLJ) Yuri Tamm (130k close grip Snatch) Koji and remarkable jumps and sprint times and most importantly years of high volume with exacting Technique.

4) The strength aspect of my talk with Coach B was maybe 10 minutes of 2 hours- the rest revolved around Training Complexes- What balls and when- how far to throw in practice and many of things that he talks about in "Transfer of Training"- Which I own 2 copies, one for me with highlights and scribbles and one that I lend out to other coaches on my staff working with sprinters, jumpers and the like.

5) We talked about the hammer as a "system"- and pushing the ball with the right side and no left shoulder to seperate the axis or create the drag technique. He was very gracious.

6) I later flew to New Zealand to hear Bondarchuk again- this time with Yuri Sedyk in tow and had many training opportunities with Yuri. What I learned was that although he and Litivinov were only seperated by centimeters- they were way differnt in nervous system and styles- that day Sedyk trained at between 75-79 meters with the 16 with maybe one or two at 80- he replied that it was not uncommon for Litvinov to train at or near the World record with the 16 but his level of consistency caused many left sector fouls and stop and start throws. With Yuri- every throw of every ball looked the same.

So when I post numbers or ratios- it is NOT the lost secret to throwing far- I am just sharing info that helped me as an athlete a long the way. The same way Dave McKenzie and Peter Farmer worked with me to learn 4 turns. Countless hours with lance and Stewart Togher to perfect what body allowed me to do. Al Schoterman (1972 Olympian) who believed in me and kept me going after college when my Pr was only 64 meters. Harold Connoly, who was never to busy to "take a look" at film and give me input.

But the bottom line for me was lifting after throwing was a reward I looked forward to- I embraced the weight room and it gave me attitude and confidence. I liked being strong and took pride in that aspect of training- I have much respect for those who throw farther than I did and most of them "weaker" and technically more proficient.

I thought I would add the following post to provide some background on Jud Logan's progression for those who are interested.

In addition, I think it is also worth observing that while Logan's competitive PR in the back squat with belt, suit, and knee wraps to just below parallel was 770, he has noted that his best true high-bar Olympic squat was 'only' 660 and that after 1990, he never squatted over 500.  In the same interview (at the 2007 NTCA), he noted that it would have been "impossible" to maintain a huge back squat and throw far.  This is an interesting comment given his experience and is probably worthy of consideration.  The same would probably be true of his belief that the most important lifts for (hammer?) throwers are the clean-grip snatch and the front squat.

This brings up something else that might be worth noting - strength PRs and throwing PRs aren't necessarily made in the same year, much less the same month.  In his introductory commments in articles and interviews, Jud often highlights his 770 back squat, which I believe was done some time in the mid-1980s, but he often doesn't get around to providing the complete story as noted above, which is arguably much more relevant. 

The same thing is true for numerous other throwers, with John Powell being a well-known example.  Powell's best training bench was about 450 back in the 1970's when he threw 226', but was apparantly only 290 in 1984 when he threw 233'.  Although Powell's earlier lift would certainly be much more typical for a world-class discus thrower, this example is, as Coach Mac likes to say, food for thought.

Tony C. wanted some more realistic numbers from HS lifting
1977 6"4 192
Discus 171"11 Shot 49"11
Bench 300
Clean No idea they existed
Squats Bar hurt my neck (leg press)
College (Kent State)
6"4 252 (5 years later)
Discus 169
Shot 57
Hammer 196"10
Bench 478 (comp..no equipment)
Clean 220 (reverse curl)
Snatch 170 (rarely did)
Squat 225 (hurt neck, not injured, just hurt- stopped when coaches left and went back to bench)
Post Collegiate
6"4 272
Enter former 1972 Olympian Al Schoterman.....no more bench, all Olympic lifts, introduced me to plyos, (1981) made me squat (3 times per week for 3 years, mostly 8-10 reps), and taught me how, high bar olympic style + front squats.
3 years later:
Hammer 244"7 AR and Olympic Team
Clean 323
Snatch 264
B. Squat 770 (comp/suit/wraps)
F. Squat 602 550 x 3
9 years later, enter Charles Poliquin (fixed functional weakness of my pulls)
Hammer 80 meters
OH 16 (73"4)
Clean 440
Snatch 319
Squats: Backed way off heavy squatting (plus, once every 5 days) and vertical 33 inches at 276
Olympic lifts changed my life and being forced to squat 3 time per week for 3 years enabled me to achieve a base that lead to some productive throwing.

Peter Ingleton wrote: competitive PR in the back squat with belt, suit, and knee wraps to just below parallel was 770,

An equipped back squat has about zero value in an athletic discussion. 

The 602 front is where it's at.