Hey man, I am reading this right?  The weights lifted are one thing, but it says down at the bottom that he threw 22m without gliding.  Does that mean he did nearly a 72' standing throw? Cause if that is the case he should have glided at least 80 if he had marginal form, which he did not.  I have been around the throwing game for a while and that one is a little hard to swallow, even with such amazing strength, the numbers don't line up in my mind.  If you could relay a little more about that story it would help my sanity. 

I would appreciate it.

Yes, Beyer was truly a beast.  One minor point - the follow-up post refers to "parallel squats", which is not accurate.  As noted in the original post, these were "half squats" done to a 90 degree knee angle, which would have been a few inches above parallel for the 6'5" Beyer.  This is obviously a much stronger position, and was the reason he was doing 460 kg for 5 reps while his max single in the "squat" (probably to just below parallel) was "only" 375 kg.  Still absolutely amazing for a 6'5" tall thrower.

One more stat - Beyer supposedly had the best overhead shot toss ever - about 24m - challanged only by Alekna who has supposedly done 23.89m, followed by Werner Gunthoer at just over 23m.

Quint,

It is fairly well-established that Beyer, and supposedly Andrei as well, had a standing put PR of 22m.  One possible explanation for the fact that he did not get the expected increase from the glide is because the East Germans spent a great deal of time developing their standing throws and utilized the optimal technique for maximizing the standing throw, as opposed to mimicing the power position they actually achieved during the glide. 

Consequently, these standing puts utilized a much more powerful position than anyone, especially someone like Beyer, could actually achieve during the full throw.  Does this make sense to you?  You have to remember that Ulf Timmermann, who was much smaller and much weaker than Beyer, had a standing throw of about 21m.  Let me know if you need more info.

Greg,

I would like to see that too.  The info posted by hopefulthrower is from Beyer himself, through an aquantaince.  He would have no reason to lie, and in fact the reason this came up is because, as a result of an honest conversion error, people were suggesting Beyer's lifts were all 10% HIGHER than the numbers posted above, which Beyer took pains to correct.

It is, of course, important to understand exactly how the lifts were done, which is outlined to some degree in the brackets.  Even his strict bench was not likely done to powerlifting standards, and the one with pad and hip movement was done with a big bounce onto a chest pad etc.

I can tell you, as I have posted before, that my first coach personally witnessed Beyer doing 2 sets of about 6 very explosive reps with 800 or 900 pounds down to a well-padded bench at quarter-squat depth the day before he set his World Record in 1983.

BTW, I have included an excerpt from a post below that includes some stats of a fellow Canadian that I was aquainted with as a teenager.  A true beast, but somewhat better in the weightroom than in the ring.

This is Anna Dolegiewicz (Bishop's wife) - Bish is not much for spending alot of time on the computer so I will reply for him.
Bish is alive and kickin'!!! And I will tell you that he looks great. He will be 52 in the summer, he is currently 300 lbs. and has a six pack. (Not back for an old fart- I can say that cause I am 25 years younger than Bish and he looks better than most 20 year old's)
For those of you who are requesting Bish's stats and lifts as an athlete:
6'6 '' 310 at a lighter weight and -340 lbs at his heaviest.
Disc: 65.32 m
Shot: 21.02m
Bench press <605 lbs. >official competition squat <800 lbs.> (1,000 lbs. in training) power clean-<450 lbs.> dead lift< 800 lbs.> overhead push press< 530 lbs. >
Bish never used any tight wraps or bench shirts.

Peter Ingleton wrote: East Germans spent a great deal of time developing their standing throws and utilized the optimal technique for maximizing the standing throw, as opposed to mimicing the power position they actually achieved during the glide.

Wondering if you can break that down a bit. How would technique for a standing throw be different from the power position of a glide or a spin?

I will let the following posts speak for me.  Let me know if my comments remain unclear.  The power position actually achieved using the spin is MUCH different than one would use to maximize a standing throw.  This is one reason many spinners don't do many standing throws, or else do them in a way that does mimic their power position, resulting in rather short standing throws.

Glide 2

A standing throw has much more potential for giving the thrower the chance to hit perfect positions.

I am NOT talking about replicating the position the thrower comes in the final power position from a stand.This way Timmermann would have 3m differential too.

I'm talking about going from a stand and driving the shot much more down and to the thrower's right than any thrower in the world would be able to do in a full throw.
Giving the shot a longer path,almost the same as with the full throw but almost 100% of it accelerating and without unsupported phases.Giving the right leg the chance to use its strength only for lifting and turning and not lose any power from absorbing impact forces.
THIS is what the Germans were measuring as standing throws and NOT what most of you think here,and possibly Mr Smith too.It was not the same as Mr Nelson's stands,not like Brenner's stands.They drove the shot into the ground,they lifted the block leg,they lifted their whole body ,lowered it,then blocked and jumped.And it was more powerful than the stands thet emulate the final phase of the throw.

I believe i answered once and for all this debate and for those of you that have seen the Germans train or some times warmup in competition they know what i mean.It looked a bit like Martinez does for a standing throw,only they were taller ,possibly more powerful and did this with 100% intensity from day 1 of training and that's why they became so good at it.They were great at it because they did it a lot and with quite heavy shots.There's no secret about it anymore.

They were a great group of throwers and their greatness is proven biomechanically.


As for the locked left leg glide its one use is to strengthen the right.The other is to ensure blocking on a straight leg.Now many throwers if they try this exercise they could throw just as far as with an aggressive left leg or the same as with an active right leg.It's about how straight the left leg will be when it blocks.
Judging from the training PRs could be misleading.It's easy to figure out that when one learns the LLG can try to advance to the aggressive kick and see if it helps.Perhaps high school throwers cannot master the aggressive left.
But for a world class thrower to have it as the competitive way of throwing it was giving him consistency and distance.

I would be very interested however to know why a well known throwing coach that for quite some time uses the training PRs of throwers from DDR and their very small standing throw to full throw differential to question and downplay their technical efficiency uses the SAME programme exercise by exercise as the DDR throwers...

Stands-i disagree.

There should not be parts or compartments of the training where distance doesn't matter.
Distance is the only objective proof that your technique is working or not.

I'm not sure that many realise this,but the standing throw or power position to release is the only part of the technique that there's actual throwing involved ! The rest up to that point is not throwing,it's moving with the implement.You can move all you want,but it all comes down to throwing in the end.
90% of the distance and even more of the technique involved is rigth there,at the end of the throw,right after the block leg lands.

The standing throw isn't just the ending of the throw.It's a position that possibly cannot be achieved during the full throw,but it helps if you try more and more to achieve this position,because if it's a good position in the first place,then you have to figure out a step by step plan in order to actually reach it in the full throw.

It's also the best possible strength exercise there is with heavier or lighter shots.
It's not so hard to understand that there's no exercise with more transferable gains than the stand with a heavy shot,if that's not transferable then what is,snatches ,cleans or benches ? As a strength exercise it doesn't have to be a part of the regular training,but it needs to be there,those that use the standing throw this way have an advantage.

Peter,

Thanks man I appreciate it.  I had always heard about things like this and I just assumed it was normal throwing bravado that gets thrown around by the guys standing around the ring.  I guess most of the big throwers I have been around were rotational guys and I never saw them do anything like that.  I would still love to see something like this live or on video to break it apart. 

Quint,

You are not alone:

Stand Throws and Spin Technique?

Paul,

Thanks for the tip man, I have never heard of that one.

I have met some great athletes, for example the two finest throwers, Adam Nelson and Reese Hoffa, and what they do is so different from the east germans as to nearly be a different event. PS Reese is a real nice chap as is Adam and both unique in their own way.

Viking really knows the east european shot training.

The stuff the Pros here know is far more relevant and cutting edge for highland games than the east european athletes did for shot in the 80's.

They are the true innovators and masters of highland games, the decathletes of the throws!

The current US rotational shot throwers are fantastic in their own way.Better than maybe all the 80s guys in overall performance.

I have heard that Rutger Smith and the spanish discus champion have boththrown the the shot 24m over head, and kanter has done 22.8m.

conversely both Reese and Adam have told me they are realy bad(their standards, not mine!) in the 16-17m range Go figure.

Also 21.89m standing shot timmerman, who was super strong, only just not as strong as Beyer.

go to the Ring and look up Viking's posts.LOL