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certifying world record

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Category: Nasgaweb Forums
Forum Name: A.D.
Forum Discription: This forum is for Athletic Directors to discuss issues involving running a Heavy Events competition.
URL: http://www.nasgaweb.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9108
Printed Date: 3/26/26 at 3:59pm
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Topic: certifying world record
Posted By: JCLEV
Subject: certifying world record
Date Posted: 6/23/09 at 1:06pm
I had a masters athlete ask if I was certified to verify world records. I have read the master website amd feel as long as the weight is accurate and the height is accurate then it should count....what else should I know?

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My kids wanted to be like me until they met Kevin Neis.



Northern Illinois Highland Games and Clevenger Sheaf's and forks on Facebook or at http://jclev.tripod.com/



Replies:
Posted By: Wayne Hill
Date Posted: 6/23/09 at 1:19pm
If the trig box was good and there was no foul, you're good to go.  The point is that you believe the throw was good and have done due diligence to certify the weight.

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"We may be small, but we're slow." - MIT Rugby


Posted By: JCLEV
Date Posted: 6/23/09 at 3:17pm
Thanks wayne but what about the height events? I had seen an AD put a third tape in the middle of the bar, is that needed?

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My kids wanted to be like me until they met Kevin Neis.



Northern Illinois Highland Games and Clevenger Sheaf's and forks on Facebook or at http://jclev.tripod.com/


Posted By: McSanta
Date Posted: 6/23/09 at 5:18pm

It depends on the rules used which are not consistent, perhaps vague, or non existent.  However, this is not a throwing rule, it is a record's rules/issue.  

An example of what was done in KC for Mike Zolkiewicz's weight over bar record.  The bar was level as they knew a record attempt was about to be made.  After the attempt, Kevin Henderson took an extra tape measure tossed it over the bar and measured in the middle directly under the bar. The tape was pulled taut and it measured twice the distance confirming the uprights tapes.  The reading of the extra tape was confirmed by the judge and the AD and witnessed by several other judges who stopped to watch this feat. 

The ground was a bit chewed up;  The mark was not generous, perhaps a bit onerous as he was standing in a slight depression made by the previous throwers --- However it was by the rules without picking a spot to generate the desired distance.

 

NASGA General Rules for Height Event #6: All measurements will be made from the ground to the top of the crossbar.


USAD & Borges I.3.e. All measurements shall be made from the ground to the top of the crossbar at its lowest point.

SSAAA and RMSA #6.  All measurements will be made from the ground to the top of the crossbar at the center of the crossbar.


USAD and NASGA When an American, North American, or World Record has been broken it is the responsibility of the Judge or Athletic Director to verify that record. The Record must be set within all rules for that event. The implement will be weighed on a certified scale and the weight will be equal to or more than the legal weight for that implement. In the case of the Weights for Distance, the Weight for Height, and the Hammer Throw, the overall length of the implement will be measured and the length will be equal to or less than the legal length of that implement.

RMSA - When an American, North American, or World Record has been broken it is the responsibility of the Judge AND Athletic Director to verify that record. The record must be set within all rules for that event. The implement will be weighed on a certified scale and the weight will be equal to or more than the legal weight for that implement. In the case of the Weights for Distance, the Weight for Height, and the Hammer Throw, the overall length of the implement will be measured and the length will be equal to or less than the legal length of that implement. (Measure for records on height events by measuring with tape on each end of the bar and from the center of the bar.)

Borges Rules - I do not believe his rules mentions anything about measuring for records.



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Mark McVey

"The work of science is to substitute facts for appearances and demonstrations for impressions." -John Ruskin


Posted By: McSanta
Date Posted: 6/24/09 at 2:28am

Originally posted by Wayne Hill Wayne Hill wrote:

The point is that you believe the throw was good and have done due diligence to certify the weight.
  Best advice ...

I would add the following:

Since there is no definitive rule stating you must measure in the middle to submit a record, you could avoid it but I suppose some may question the legitimize.

If no center measure, then I would ask myself the following:

  • Is the ground level & flat?,
  • Is the bar level?
  • Does the bar sag? 
  • Is the marks on my uprights for the measuring tape accurately?
  • Did the tapes on the side towers get double checked?
  • After the throw, was the measure double checked at the towers?

a random thought: Although the distance by which a record is broken should not effect your procedure, it might.  If the record falls by a foot or by an inch, would you do the same thing?



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Mark McVey

"The work of science is to substitute facts for appearances and demonstrations for impressions." -John Ruskin


Posted By: Wayne Hill
Date Posted: 6/25/09 at 12:44pm
This is worth discussing.  Whenever I set up my WOB rig, I make sure that the ground is flat or dips between the uprights, and that this holds true for several feet on either side of the bar.  This ensures that the measured height is less than or equal to the actual height the athlete needs to clear.

The bar height is measured at each end against black tape stuck at the right spots on the uprights.  The tapes are set so that the actual height of the bar is slightly higher than the measurement (say, 1/16" or 1/8").  I've checked the tapes at several heights, and am convinced that the actual bar height is always less than or equal to the measured height.

The bar is 3/4" schedule 40 pipe, and I don't know why anyone would use anything less:  it doesn't sag and can take more of a beating than a tossed implement can dish out.  When we set the bar height, we set it an inch or so above the desired height and pull it down to the mark height with the downhauls.  This extra tension on the ropes minimizes the motion of the bar if the implement hits it.  It also checks that the uphauls are tight and won't slip:  in fact, if anything were to slip, it would almost certainly be a downhaul, so the bar would move upward.

For a record attempt, I personally check the height of both ends before and after the toss.  If there are multiple attempts, I do the same before and after each attempt.  This is just being cautious, though, because I've never seen the measurement change, even with some really violent implement shots (except the time Robert Troupe brought the whole rig down).


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"We may be small, but we're slow." - MIT Rugby


Posted By: McSanta
Date Posted: 6/25/09 at 2:55pm
ClapIf there was a textbook entry for this, I think I just read it. Clap

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Mark McVey

"The work of science is to substitute facts for appearances and demonstrations for impressions." -John Ruskin


Posted By: JCLEV
Date Posted: 6/26/09 at 4:17pm
Thanks for the help guys, I appreciate it. hopefully this will help tomorrow.

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My kids wanted to be like me until they met Kevin Neis.



Northern Illinois Highland Games and Clevenger Sheaf's and forks on Facebook or at http://jclev.tripod.com/


Posted By: Steve Conway
Date Posted: 6/30/09 at 2:36pm
A 10' 3/4" schedule 40 pvc won't sag in the middle? isn't schedule 40 the lightest, do you mean schedule 80? 40 is white, 80 is gray and then I found a red one that is stiffer yet. They make good hammer handles for rough terrain when we want to preserve our cane handles. We use pole vault x-bars, 12'-14' long, almost impossible to break and won't sag.  


Posted By: Wayne Hill
Date Posted: 6/30/09 at 3:01pm
Steel pipe.

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"We may be small, but we're slow." - MIT Rugby


Posted By: Steve Conway
Date Posted: 6/30/09 at 3:23pm
Ahh... heavy, hard to bend. I've used 3/4" conduit, easy to bend.


Posted By: WALLY.OLECIK
Date Posted: 6/30/09 at 3:46pm
Originally posted by Steve Conway Steve Conway wrote:

We use pole vault x-bars, 12'-14' long, almost impossible to break and won't sag.

+1   Costs a little more but worth every cent.  Zero sag and we've been using the same two for at least ten years.


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16lb-hammer(at)sshga.org

"Try not. Do or do not. There is no 'try!'" Yoda


Posted By: McSanta
Date Posted: 7/01/09 at 12:49pm

Another plus side to the pole vault bars ... if one side lets loose, and the bar swings like a pendalumn, it won't do anywhere near the harm that a steel bar could do

 



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Mark McVey

"The work of science is to substitute facts for appearances and demonstrations for impressions." -John Ruskin



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