question about power clean technique

my name is Roy......

john gallagher wrote: My name isn't Roy or Kurt but I will chime in an idea.  A lot of my throwers can hang clean more than they can full clean.  One big problem I see is that when they hang clean they are more over the bar with their chest when they pull from the thighs, when they full clean they are slightly more upright and possibly pulling back a little when they are at the second pull at the thighs.  I would say try keeping your chest over the bar as long as you can before you go into the second pull when you attempt a full.  It will give you a longer second pull and keep the bar in a straight line going up from the thighs.  A full is kinda like a nice throw.  Slow and controlled and hold position at the start, be patient, then explode at the right time.  A lot of athletes explode into the second pull way too early.  My best full cleans are when I try to stay over the bar until the bar reaches my upper quads then hit reverse c or triple extension and you can catch it in a high squat position.  If I hit the second pull right above the knees, I miss the bigger weights because the pull is shorter and I pull back on my heels too soon.  Sounds like the same problems I see made in the standing wob.  Pull too soon.  Hope this helps Will.  Let me know.

cosign.

I guess the stretch reflex in regards to a hang clean or snatch is something I don't always think about because of two reasons.  I just have not done many oly lifts from the hang.  Frazier just always had us lift from the floor.  And, if I do the clean from the hang I lower the bar slowly to the top of my knees, stop and feel where my pulling position is prior to the pull.  So....am I getting the stretch reflex?  I have seen throwers start in a upright standing position, then almost free fall to the knees and then drive the bar up on the pull with no stopping at the knees.  Is this what you are talking about Coach?  I guess I am always worried about a back injury changing direction with a big load like that.  I see your point and how it relates to throwing.  Do you even advocate doing any oly lifts from the floor?  One might as well just deadlift to build strength from the floor and never oly lift from the floor.  All oly lifts from a hang?  Just picking the brain on this subject.  I think this furthers the discussion a month ago about the deadlift vs. the oly lift.  This seems to me that this is how one could combine the two with two totally different strength goals but both serving the throws.

Gallagher

  Thanks for the great post Coach Mac.  I must re-phrase the subject some.  You could do both types of movement.  The idea of having one system only is usually not productive.  The thought of doing deadlifts from the floor (explosively) and the hang olympic movements could be used.  What would be the applicability towards throwing? 

  A clean variant we used to do were Barski cleans (named for the great Bob Bednarski).  3 cleans are required, 1 from the floor, 1 from the hang and 1 from the floor. This was great to teach finish at the top but also to learn how to catch a weight, particularly the bottom position or rack.  These were done in full squat clean fashion but I am sure they could be done in power clean fashion with some of the same result.  Actually, Bill Starr writes about these cleans in this months Milo. 

  Names withheld, I do know some mighty WOB/weight throwers who swear by the power clean from the floor.  Actually to the point of correlating their power clean from the floor with the result they get for WOB.  Any thoughts?

  I guess to get back to original thought by Will, he throws a ton and I only wish I could throw like that, but if he does alot of power cleans and high bar back squats/front squats this off season, HOLY COW, watch out.   

Food for thought, for sure, just keep in mind...

I thought I would throw this into the mix with some of the questions and points of view being added to this thread. I have pulled cleans form the floor with a pause after each rep, I have done “hang” cleans with a start point bellow and above the knee, and most beneficial to me as an “athlete” was to stand on a platform made of 2x4’s on end with the weights resting bellow my feet and perform continuous reps of either pulls or power cleans. The weights when lowered did not touch the floor but did go bellow my feet. I would to any where from 1 reps to 8 reps like this and it didn’t matter where my hands griped the bar. The key is the full pull and continuous movement that made it dynamic. This is a true “hang” clean to me. I’m sure coach Mac has some film to demonstrate these lifts on a 2x4 platform.

PS Do you have any new vids on Koji or Luke throwing?

wow - just like that. keep the shoulders over bar for a longer period of time and I hit a new pr in the full power snatch and full power clean.

this message board is pretty awesome.

Coach Mac wrote: ...ask a friend to stand still, then tell her to move rapidly sideways in the direction you point. Watch her closely. The first move she makes will be a small and quick shift to the opposite side, then she will move in the direction indicated. This movement is no coincidence; the prestretch helps propel the person to the side faster.

I don't mean to nitpick in a great discussion like this one but I don't think this is correct. The reason for the foot shift to the left before the drive to the right is to get the body leaning in the intended direction of travel. If you didn't lean right first then pushing right with your feet would just cause you to tilt left instead of moving right. Anyone who has ridden a motorcycle at high speed in turns should be familiar with this, you have to snap left going into a right hander to get the bike to lean over hard. The faster you're going the more aggressive you have to be. Very freaky sh*t.

4 4 foot lengths of 2x8
2 54 inch lengths of 2x4
8 6-7 inch carriage bolts
washers and nuts

Lay two pieces of 2x8 on top of each other, to form a plank roughly 4 inches thick and 48 inches long. Do the same with the other two. Place these two planks so that 36 inches separates them, at their inside edges. (or the space between your Olympic bar inside collars. You may even wish to load your bar with some plates and then mark where the center point of the plate stack is) Lay the two 2x4s across these planks, one at each end, so that the edge of the 2x4 and the ends of the planks are flush. Now, carefully drill through the 2x4 and the planks, making two evenly spaced holes at each end, for a total of eight holes. Insert the bolts, washers and nuts and tighten everything together. (you may wish to counter sink the hardware)

Turn the whole assembly over, so that the 2x4's are on the bottom. The raised 2x8s form a deadlifting platform that has some "spring" to it, since it can flex slightly from resting on the 2x4s.

Since you're starting nearly six inches higher, you can use heavier weight. The spring of the platform prevents the "jarring" that is common in the power rack. It also is much kinder to your floors.