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Nathan Parker 
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 Topic: Hex bar deadliftPosted: 10/01/14 at 3:33pm |
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I am looking for an alternative to straight bar deadlifting. My lower back has been pissy since my last deadlift workout, and I am at a crossroads with it. I don't want to stop pulling, but I also don't want to reinjure myself. I do know that I've thrown at my best when deadlifting consistently. I've read that hex bar pulls are a lot easier on the lower back, but I am not sure if they have the same benefit at straight bar? Anyone have any insight in the area?
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Duncan McCallum
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Posted: 10/01/14 at 3:43pm |
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I love them. Get the bar. It's more like a squat and MUCH easier on the low back.
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The man in the arena.
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Nathan Parker
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Posted: 10/01/14 at 3:46pm |
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I've read that its similar to squatting. Squats don't affect my back at all. In fact, I think I feel better after squatting. Where'd you get yours?
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Duncan McCallum
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Posted: 10/01/14 at 3:58pm |
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Amazon
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The man in the arena.
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dWood
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Posted: 10/01/14 at 4:01pm |
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Saving up my pennies for the one on T-Nation site,that's the one I want
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JUST BRING IT /
SPEED KILLS..BUT STRENGTH PUNISHES |
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Nathan Parker
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Posted: 10/01/14 at 4:31pm |
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I saw that one. Little pricy. Sorinex has one for $399 and Rogue has one for $299. Less expensive ones are all over. I suppose you get what you pay for just like anything else.
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dWood
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Posted: 10/01/14 at 4:45pm |
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Yeah pricey but real sweet( trained with one down in the NYC's village pers training studio) but will probably be forced to go with Sorinex( great quality none the less)
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JUST BRING IT /
SPEED KILLS..BUT STRENGTH PUNISHES |
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Daniel McKim
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Posted: 10/01/14 at 10:25pm |
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Go with the diamond bar from Sorinex ... I know a guy. Quality is right.
The cheaper, bright zinc ones you find online are okay for lighter work, but I've seen a number of them getting bent in the schools I visit. You'll also want to keep in mind how long the sleeve is, as those same ones have shallow sleeves, making it tougher to load the weight you want, especially if you're using bumpers with it.
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dWood
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Posted: 10/02/14 at 12:04am |
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after looking it over am probably going with the sorinex..had one of those cheap zinc coated ones and it was fine for a while(used it training high school hockey team,but after 3 seasons of training them and using it for jumps-it was trashed as the athletes just got too strong and explosive for it)
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JUST BRING IT /
SPEED KILLS..BUT STRENGTH PUNISHES |
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C. Smith
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Posted: 10/02/14 at 7:56am |
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Hi, I'm the devil's advocate. Based on:
Doesn't that tell you something? I'm in no way saying that a hex bar dl isn't great, because it is, but is it really comparable to a straight bar dl? They are two totally different movements. If you're working around an injury, then it's a non-point. You do what you have to do to train. If that issue is caused by a weak lower back, then I'm not sure doing something to further neglect the issue is the right move. I love Dan and Bert, but I wouldn't be able to justify spending $400 on that bar, when there are a good amount of options out there (Edge, Rogue, Black Widow,etc..) for cheaper. |
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Nathan Parker
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Posted: 10/02/14 at 8:57am |
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Craig- I wish it was weakness, because I would just fix it. I have taken steps to strenghten the area. I have a condition called spondylolisthesis in L5S1. Its minor, but enought to remind me that I can't slip up on my form. Its also not fixable without surgury which at this point is not necessary , nor wanted.
Deadlifting with the straght bar will cause discomfort on occasion. Esp when several reps are involved. singles LY didnt bother it all. RDL's, GM's, and anything that resembles bent over rows usually are bad as well. I have stayed away from these. I still want to deadlift with a straight bar, but want it to be for singles and doubles towards the end of strength phases. The hex bar would be for rep work to supplement the time in between. This is my thought process at the moment anyways. |
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rob meulenberg
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Posted: 10/02/14 at 9:04am |
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That says it all. No high reps. High reps on the deadlift are totally unneeded. What you are suggesting is perfect. Use various different lifts to improve the deadlift. Stay away from GMs and stuff like that if it hurts, but do your squatting, hex bar DLs, whatever. It'll work if you are putting the effort in. As I am sure you know, Louie Simmons has written volumes on this. Even if people disagree with his principles (I don't), he still has a great many things you can learn from.
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C. Smith
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Posted: 10/02/14 at 9:13am |
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Nate - I have the same spondy condition, except mines L4L5S1. That was the reason I couldn't/didn't back squat for 10 years, and a reason I don't do rows, etc... and I keep my RDL's at 225 or lower.
Rob's right, just don't do reps, and +1 to the plan you have. I guess my only question really, after reading, is why you feel the need to pull reps at all in the first place? |
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Nathan Parker
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Posted: 10/02/14 at 9:21am |
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I guess its to be consistant with all my lifts. I start every off season with volume work with the 4 major movements. No problems here.
Then I get into 5x5's and eventually 5x3's. I though sub max work was where its at for gaining strength. I only did singles for a small window of time. I pulled PR's for 3 weeks straight, then had my best game ever two weeks later... Then like a dummy, I backed off.
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C. Smith
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Posted: 10/02/14 at 9:32am |
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Anecdotally, I basically trained deadlift for the last 15+ years by using only singles, and an occasional double. It works just fine.
Sub-max is where it's at, and it doesn't have to me a max single every session. Just a thought. |
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rob meulenberg
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Posted: 10/02/14 at 9:35am |
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Nate, everyone is different, but in my 20 years in the iron game, I have rarely pulled (standard) deadlift reps. The notable exceptions:
1) Training for a strongman contest where an event was...deadlift for reps 2) Just for sh*ts and giggles on odd days where I am bored and wanted to do something different. Like the day I just decided I wanted to see how many reps I could get with 630. lol. I truly believe that high volume work can have its place in a lot of lifts. Just not the oly ones, or the deadlift. |
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Nathan Parker
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Posted: 10/02/14 at 9:35am |
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This discussion has been helpful. Thanks guys.
 now to find a bar...
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Sean
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Posted: 10/02/14 at 10:19am |
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Men smarter than I have already weighed in on the actual topic, so I'm going to address this comment:
All lifts are not created equally, so don't treat them equally. Singles on the dead are king. Timed singles can be used for the illusion of volume. And just in case I haven't yelled it at you before, Nate: reverse planks. |
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Nathan Parker
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Posted: 10/02/14 at 10:29am |
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I wish i had a decade+ of lifting so I would've figured this shit out a long time ago lol. As for the planks, yes you did and yes I do...often.
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Sport Kilt
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jsully
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Posted: 10/02/14 at 11:51am |
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save your $ and do more squatting imo |
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jsully
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Posted: 10/02/14 at 11:57am |
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have you tried sumo pulling?
it's a more upright pull and might not affect your back issue as much. what about reverse hypers? |
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Daniel McKim
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Posted: 10/02/14 at 12:02pm |
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Because of back issues and not wanting to risk it, I gave up big movements from the floor years ago (deads and full power cleans). Everyone is different, and it sounds like you've discovered deads help you throw far, but I believe you can get the work in other ways, without compromising your back. Just from my experience, deads aren't the "mandatory lift" for big throws. Find what works for you, man.
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C. Smith
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Posted: 10/02/14 at 12:10pm |
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I don't know how Nate's spondy issues relate to mine, but I hate the reverse hyper. |
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jsully
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Posted: 10/02/14 at 12:16pm |
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agree 100% I didn't pull for the entire season and still hit a few big throws this season. |
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C. Smith
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Posted: 10/02/14 at 12:48pm |
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^^ I'll agree with Dan and Jake there, BUTTTTTTTTTTTT:
I don't know why they would discount that part of this thread. Seems silly to me to overlook that when you've already said what the results of consistent deadlifting are... I suppose it all depends on how willing you are to experiment to find another exercise that gives you those results. I never found it. |
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Daniel McKim
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Posted: 10/02/14 at 2:01pm |
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I didn't discount it. I know that's what he said. I'm fine with that, but if injury becomes a concern, I'd encourage him to explore other options. I did and found it to work. Does that mean it will be a good move or option for Nate? Nope. Not at all. I can only speak for myself. Just wanted to share my experience. We don't throw anything from the floor, rather, much is in the power position, so that's why I program more of my time there over other movements (hang snatch, hang clean). Throw in a greater risk for injury and pain, and it was a no-brainer for me to drop the deads and full cleans. Not telling Nate to do that, but as he gets along further in the sport and injuries or pain stacks up, it might be worth experimenting with.
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C. Smith
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Posted: 10/02/14 at 2:03pm |
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Ahhh, I missed that, sorry Dan.
I can't argue with anything that you wrote there. |
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jsully
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Posted: 10/02/14 at 2:38pm |
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So the question is: Was he training 'as a whole' when he was "deadlifting consistently and throwing his best" or was he sandbagging his squats and speed training so that he could pull more to carryover for throwing? He has admitted he ceased training in general and thus his performance has dropped overall. We all know that the carryover to throwing is throwing. From my point of view, we can't blame his throwing numbers on a single variable (deadlifting) when he has changed multiple variables (stopped lifting entirely). Perhaps it has less to do with deadlifting and more to do with consistent training? Just a thought. I say this because I used to link pulling with throwing as well. If I wasn't pulling heavy I wasn't throwing far. It's easy to link the two if there is a gap somewhere else. From may until 3 weeks ago I hadn't pulled >275lbs. I've gone 116/145, 48/89 and usually pretty solid for 16. We all know my stone tech is misery so there's no point in quoting those numbers. |
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C. Smith
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Posted: 10/02/14 at 2:54pm |
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lol, you said speed training.
I was just going by what he said, where he was at with the control and variables, I don't know. If I had to guess, you're right, and it's just likely overall strength. |
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jsully
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Posted: 10/02/14 at 3:06pm |
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speed training... because science
-_- |
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Nathan Parker wrote: