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Why have Pro level games?

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Wayne Hill View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wayne Hill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/20/14 at 7:08am
Others have touched on this, but let me summarize two models for games athletics (and I'm not placing any kind of value judgement on either one):

The big-games model: optimize the spectator experience for athletics to be a major games anchor. This involves:
  • Clarity: they have to be able to tell what's going on.
  • Movement: minimize dead time. Scheduled down-time (e.g., for lunch) is fine, but people are there to see big people throw heavy things.
  • Excitement: big throws, good competition, tough cabers.
This calls for small fields of athletes, not more than 2 or 3 classes (e.g., pro, masters, women, A ams), ideally never throwing at the same time, and great announcing. Big throws really do help: when your announcer is comparing given throws to WRs four or five times in a given competition, or the athletes are having trouble with the caber, and finally two or three manage to turn it, the excitement can be electric. This is how we get people to plop down their chair on Friday night to secure a spot for the weekend at Loon.

The local or regional games format: have lots of ams in a bunch of classes, all throwing in a three-ring circus. They pay a modest fee to cover costs, attract a bunch of family and friends, and show a lot of motion/action for a more passive/transient crowd. Friends and family might be able to follow the competition for a given athlete, but even with good announcing, the general audience won't really have any idea what's going on. Still, the movement provides interest and a positive contribution to the games atmosphere.

Should your games feature pros? That is an excellent question. You have to understand where your games stand, what you'll gain and lose, and how the economics will work. Whatever you do, don't just waltz into major changes hoping it will work out somehow.
"We may be small, but we're slow." - MIT Rugby
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Krazy40 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/20/14 at 7:30am
Damn, I didn't make the CSmith quote post. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote C. Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/20/14 at 7:33am
Originally posted by Krazy40 Krazy40 wrote:

Damn, I didn't make the CSmith quote post. 


This. 



Big smile



And I agreed with you anyway...but you already knew that, lol.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Detroitpete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/20/14 at 7:35am
This is all just opinion:
Here's a few things I learned about sales and marketing from a few crazy years working for Miller Brewing:
 
Every prospect begins their interaction with you with their primary concern being price and ROI. Build relationships with your prospects.  Sell the sizzle NOT the steak.  Create energy by selling the opportunity not the product (all products are essentially the same).  The prospect needs to hear that the event is so important that he'll miss out if he doesn't take part--help him want to take part--the cost becomes the secondary issue and an 'investment' with much more return than he had previously thought.
 
What's this mean for us?  The Festival is the thing!  It is the excitment and our reason for being.  The sponsors need to WANT to be part of this or they'll miss out.  We all have our role to play, AD's Judges, Announcers and athletes (pro or am--doesn't matter), but the MOST important group for all of us is the CROWD.  They pay the bills--they are why we're there--they buy stuff from the sponsors.  If they are excited and feeling part of something fun--they spend more and will come back next year--hopefully bringing others with them.
 
As athletes we need to focus more on this, IMHO.  If you throw, move your chair from event to event, only get out of your chair to throw, sit there with your log book and smart phone--soley focused on scores, maybe even wearing a towel over your head--guess what?  You're TAKING from the event and not GIVING to it. Chances are, you're probably acting like a total douche to the rest of the athlete's too.  I'm not saying act like a spastic monkey on crack--but you ignore the crowd at our peril.
 
That rope or fence that seperates us from the crowd is there for safety.  It keeps them off the field--but WE can cross it--and should.  Our entertainment is NOT entertainment if all we do is throw and occasionally wave at the crowd.  Some people will go apoplectic about this, but I always take the weights and stones around (carefully--safely and as a spotter) for the crownd to touch, lift and see what we deal with--I tell them how freekin' heavy it is--and how much it hurts :)  I point to the guys on the field and say "You've seen this and how heavy it is--watch what these guys can do with it for you".
 
 PR's:  When someone gets a PR--the announcer needs to shout it like it's a world record--and let the crowd know that the guy they just saw just did his absolute BEST for them.  Here's how you mess that up:  Was at a games on am day, the pros to throw on day 2.  We were at 15 with WOB--a guy hit his PR on it.  You know what the announcer said?  (Not Mike Brown) Didn't mention the guy's PR--but said "15 feet really isn't that high--you'll see higher throws tomorrow".  So should we be surprised when people in the crowd who were at first 'into it' then scoffed and walked away?
 
Cabers:  THIS is what everyone wants to see--and they want to see them turned.  Sorry, but this usually creates an entire thread worth of debate.  Are we focused on ourselves--or the crowd.  If we're focused on ourselves here's how it goes:  The 2 studs running neck and neck in scoring decide they want the biggest stick they can get--to settle things between them.  To hell with the rest of the field or the crowd.  Then we watch no throw after no throw--or partial turns etc for 90% of the event.  Then the 2 studs let rip.  Look--if a caber toss of 10:00 or 2:00 wins--the damn caber was too big.  It ain't about you--it's about the crowd.  I'm NOT saying we get some pencil that anyone from the crowd can turn--but just remember--they want to see us turn cabers.  Act accordingly.
 
I invite people in the crowd to come and grab the caber at the fat end (again VERY mindful of safety) and then up-sell how heavy, long and difficult it is.  Doesn't matter if the stick is 85 lbs and 22 feet long--they get their hands on it and it feels like a telephone pole.
 
Let the crowd hear your good natured ball-busting between athlete's.
 
Sell the excitement and fill the dead space.  There's a lot of down time during our games--going from event to event and taking a much needed rest in between--AD's who rush us through without at least a chance to catch our breath, risk having us get injured.  So fill the space with with anything you can to keep the crowd happy--maybe a one-toss monster caber challenge between the studs--maybe bring some pipers on the field; use the time to educate the crowd more about the events; interview an athlete; talk with the crowd and have them pick thier 'guy' to root for.  Athletes, take a few moments to just shake someone's hand and thank them for coming.
 
When meeting with sponsors or prospects--see if you can take a few throwers with you--create excitement and let the prospect know that he doesn't want to miss this chance.
 
Pro or am--without a viable festival, we won't have a place to play.  If you want pros, then it just means a bit more work on sponsors and prospects--but NEVER EVER downplay the am athlete's to do this.  You want to poison the well--give the festivals or sponsors ONE whiff of drama.  Drama between athletes, ADs etc will ruin us.  Pros trash talking ams--ams trash talking pros, in front of others--and we're finished. 
 
We're modern day gladiators.  The crowd is more important than our numbers or petty selfish bitching about pros, ams, lightweights, masters, ad infinitum.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Detroitpete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/20/14 at 7:50am
Craig--Alma is a GREAT weekend.  Here's a bit of a friendly gaunlet thrown your way:  Last year we did a Wounded Warrior Caber comp on both days--Thanks again to the pros who let us jump in during some down time.
After the money was counted--the crowd for the Ams out-raised the Pros 2 to 1 :)   We're planning on doing another Wounded Warrior caber challenge this year--maybe a friendly wager is in order!
 
I think that speaks to our support in Alma.  And--not to put too fine of a point on it--when was the last time you saw the Ams day at Alma?
 
As far as comparisons side-by-side, sure, the crowd can see that a pro can throw farther than an Am in most cases.  That's why they're pros--but having a games where a guy who struggles with a 20 WFD throwing at the same time as a pro class is just stupid. Not all AMs struggle to throw a 20 FT. wfd, so we shouldn't paint them all with the same brush either.
 
When it comes to pros bringing in ams--sure, there are a few guys who are throwing A and want to move up--or a few guys who want a few free-clinic moments to get coaching.  But again, I wouldn't pain all ams with that brush either. 
 
Here's what I'm absolutely sure of:  Divisiveness between pros and ams can do nothing but harm our sport/hobby and lead to trouble with our festivals.  We're the only ones making the divisiveness happen, therefore, we're the ones that COULD end it--if we chose to.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C. Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/20/14 at 8:14am

I haven't seen the Am day at Alma in a long time, which is why I stated that I would be surprised, but hoped that they did.  If you're telling me they do, then that is fantastic.  I'm only basing my Am crowd experience from when I was an Am....many years ago, lol.  The only other time I get to see the difference in reaction is when we're throwing at the same time.   

I didn't paint them all with the same brush, which is why I noted that both were great reasons to be involved.  

I agree with your last statement 100%.  If someone feels that I've caused any of the divisiveness, then I certainly apologize.  But I've not heard that complaint.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moosie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/20/14 at 8:34am
[QUOTE=phatmiked]
There is a great deal that can and should be written in regards to this topic. 

The first point I will make is that no matter how high the quality of your product, if you stick it off to the side and don't market it, you will see little ROI.

Let's be candid, the vast majority of festivals are not very good at marketing and promotion. 


Agree with Phatmiked, but each festival is an individual undertaking with individual financial issues. Professional sports know how to market for the entire sport. That seems to be the key. How to promote the sport beyond the festivals. In the 3 years I have been in the sport, the Texas games has grown thanks to the TCAA.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Sean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/20/14 at 9:13am
I'm glad the point on a good announcer came up. A good announcer can make or break what's going on. You can get them to chide or cheer athletes, get the crowd riled up, make it a lot more personal. You can get a crowd cheering berserk loud for an Am B fighting to get a stick over if the crowd knows he's been flirting with it forever and the athlete in question plays it up.

Which also leads back to the athletes and what Jeremy said. You want to get an invite back? You want your AD to love you and the crowd to watch for your next effort? Ham it the hell up.

I've heard it said around here that the distances themselves are enough and that we shouldn't be dancing monkeys.

Bullshit.

We're the entertainment, kids. As far as HG guys, there are exactly 2 guys who can say they were REAL pro athletes: Baab and Andy Vincent.

So give the crowd what they want. They will love you and you will love them for it:

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/20/14 at 9:14am
Originally posted by C. Smith C. Smith wrote:



I haven't seen the Am day at Alma in a long time


We know ALL about your deep-seeded hate of Ams, Craig ;)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve Conway Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/20/14 at 9:49am
Good question...I have this conversation frequently with games providers and the answer is not always the same. It usually comes down to $ as in ROI, that's the bottom line with games, if you can't at the very least break even you won't be around long. How much $ do you have to offer the pro's? Understandably, they're not going to come to your games if they lose $. I have games where I can't get more than local pro's and others where I have to turn them away...$ dictates.
A few thoughts...Scotland doesn't have 75-100 athletes showing up at a games, their model really doesn't work for US games. A good announcer does make a huge difference at any level of competition. At the bigger games, people won't stay at any one venue all day, they want to see ALL of the things offered. Pipe bands ARE the biggest draw, we've done a number of surveys at Pleasanton. The Am's do appeal to the average spectator because they can identify with them, at Pleasanton when we are running 5 classes at a time in front of the grandstands, a woman or master turning a caber can get as loud of a cheer as anyone else. Every games is different, you can't use one to model all the others after. Every location is different, quite often the athletics has to be on a field to the side because of the size and safety requirements. What is the purpose of Highland Games? Is it a cultural event designed to provide enjoyment to a variety of people or is it specifically an athletic event designed to showcase a small group of athletes?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Krazy40 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/20/14 at 10:12am
Originally posted by Sean Sean wrote:

Originally posted by C. Smith C. Smith wrote:



I haven't seen the Am day at Alma in a long time


We know ALL about your deep-seeded hate of Ams, Craig ;)

You are thinking of Valenti.  He is gone doing reps to infinity.  There's a difference between hating something and not caring.  Craig falls more into the not caring, LOL.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike Beech Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/20/14 at 12:40pm
Great responses in this thread. Given my new position as the head of the Texas Celtic Athletic Association, these are all factors decisions I will eventually have to make. For what it's worth, I think the most important factors in getting attention paid at your games and building a tradition that can justify and afford the expenditure associated with a pro class are:

- Solid announcer who knows the sport and spends time getting to know the athletes.
- Visual aids - Signs & posters explaining the sport, events and classes. Names on shirts, bibs, etc. An announcer can do a lot, but not everyone will be there to hear everything they say.
- Close proximity to the crowd and engaging them - especially kids. At every single games I attend, I always pull a kid out of the crowd and let him hold something heavy, chat him up, etc. I learned this from some great throwers and it is a 100% win every time. This is even bigger when the athletes are pros.
- Call local papers, websites and news outlets in advance of the event. Let them know what's going on. Never underestimate the hustle of someone desperate for fresh content.

These things lead to crowd draws over time. If I have to answer to a festival committee about ROI, I am going to show them a growth plan with steady reductions in overhead and increases in ticket sales based on the popularity of the games. I would tell them it's a three-year endeavor, but with the right approach it can take the festival to the next level. Show them Celtic Classic, show them Loon. Tell them they can be at the forefront of making this sport bigger and more popular. Every single community wants to have things that are the "best around." They want something to brag about that's unique but appealing. Tell them that there are world-class athletes waiting in line to give them this. Tell them everyone within three states will hear about it.

Getting the best in the world means nothing if you don't yell it from the mountain tops.


Edited by Mike Beech - 3/20/14 at 2:35pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duncan McCallum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/20/14 at 12:58pm
"Worthy of pros" huh?
 
Is that really what this has become?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike Beech Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/20/14 at 1:24pm
-

Edited by Mike Beech - 3/20/14 at 3:15pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Daniel McKim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/20/14 at 1:31pm
Some good thoughts here, and valuable insight from a guy named Steve Conway ... runs one of the biggest and most well-known games in the world.  I do not have any experience running a games, and have nothing but huge respect for those that do.  Here are a few things I've seen through the years that are great ideas:

Marketing/media/exposure seems to be a common theme.  Two separate times at Loon and Celtic I have interviewed with BBC radio.  The Travel Channel came to Celtic in 2012.  I did a radio spot on the Philly ESPN station (Harrison Bailey, I believe, has for years and they LOVE him in town).

RCN, a local cable company, is the top sponsor for the Celtic and they film and broadcast everything.  The sponsors pay to be THE single sponsor on the shirt of an athlete. The sponsor tent is on the field, and they watch it.  Another thing that the Celtic does that's amazing is they open the gates and have an extended "athlete meet and greet."  It creates intrigue and interest for people.  They come to take a yearly picture with you, and you won't believe how much the kids love it.  The field is lined with sponsor placards - they get coverage to thousands of people, as well as the broadcast on RCN. 

At Dana Point this year for the IHGF World Championships, Cox Cable came in with a huge crew and filmed the weekend.  That has since been shown to thousands of homes on the West Coast.  This games, too, was free to get in, so there was a large number of families.

Just some things I see that are things I would put into a games (still working on something in KC). 

Joel, you're passionate and genuine, two traits that people admire.  People will give you their time on the sales side, whether that's to bring in pros or grow the games in general.  Best of luck, man. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Moosie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/20/14 at 1:51pm
One of the first guys I ever saw throw was Andy Vincent at Austin (WR WOB). He is definitely good for the sport. But, the second games I watched was Salado. That year was almost entirely Masters. I said, "Hey, these guys look like me. I can do this!" That's when I decided to start training and eventually competing. Salado doesn't produce as many great throws as some of the other meets but it has a very large crowd and is a blast for both competitors and spectators. All classes are a draw to the crowd.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joel Sim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/20/14 at 2:03pm
I'm in the same boat Mike, I want to be as prepared as possible when asked these questions. I believe the worst thing that could happen is to get the"deer in the headlights" look & stutter or freeze. Do that at a committee meeting & it's all over. I want to think like them (committee chairs) anticipate & direct the conversation where I can present the best product.

I like the marketability of Highland Games as entertainment. When sold in this regard the ROI is less tangible. Projections of increased gate & vendor sales.

The more I think of it the entertainment quality really hits home. Whether the crowd is watching Pro's or Am's, we have an opportunity to entertain & grow a fan base. The larger the  fan base(market share) the easier sponsors & funding will be to procure. Successfully marketed County games will provide the data needed to confidently project increased revenue to Festivals willing to fund Pro's.

Intermediate conclusion from this is to find a quality Announcer ASAP. Develop the interest & repeat attendance because the customer doesn't want to miss the "Show"

I'm not sure about "worthy of the Pro's" though. If I'm paying for entertainment, I'm worthy. Perhaps I need to look at it differently. Would our County Rec games be "worthy"? due to minimal size & budget probably not( there might also be a rule about pro's competing at festivals, idk). Which transfers the "worthiness" to "size" & that quality seems an appropriate yardstick.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike Beech Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/20/14 at 2:30pm
Well I changed the wording on my original post to better say what I meant - bwahahaha now Joel and Duncan look like fools!

(PS - it's hard to be as dumb as I am and remain functional)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Ryan Stewart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/20/14 at 3:11pm
Great post Joel. Many good points.

I try to make it a point to take a little of each games I travel to home with me to hopefully make our home games better. Both what to do and what not to do. The good and the bad. Being that this is about the Pro class, this is what I have found.

Great ADs make a great Pro games. They are the head coach that brings it all together. You have to sell the Pros to the crowd. If you want to sell a product, you show the best product you have to offer. THAT IS THE PRO CLASS. A junk AD can ruin all that the Pro class can offer.

As many have said, a great announcer is a must. I have seen KO have the crowd eating out of his hand. Francis is probably the best I have seen. He knows all the pro athletes, all the history and builds the energy all day. But again, a great AD brings these type guys in.

Nothing is worse than when no one on or off the field knows what is going on. Again the announcer helps with this. But put Pro athlete Bios in the games handouts! Most families don't give a shit how far we throw. But they do like seeing where X athlete is from, what his background is, what he does for a living and so on. Next, put a description of the events in the handout! Then people know how much it weighs, how far it can go and so on. Next, use a score board!! Like Celtic, like the Arnold. If the crowd knows what is happening they are way more into it. Then you also don't have the athletes asking every 20 min what the scores look like.

Bottom line is help the Pros help you. If your not seeing the benefit of having the Pros then you are probably doing it wrong. Celtic seems to understand this the most. But games like Claw and Portland get it too.
John Gallagher- "MASS MOVES MASS"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote McSanta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/20/14 at 8:28pm
Since you want ideas on how to sell pros to your committee (and ROI is not a solid argument), perhaps using an music entertainment analogy for Pros maybe helpful : 

Would the festival entertain the crowd by hiring some one who plays just at open mics in coffee shops (and knows a handful of songs) or would you like to entertain the crowd with a professional who has honed his skills playing in the studio, on on the big stage, knows 100s of songs, and many instruments.




Edited by McSanta - 3/21/14 at 5:57am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Soul Eater Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/22/14 at 2:52am
I think it's a case to case basis, big budget you will attract more than you can take. Small budget will attract local pro's because their travel expense isn't huge. Little budget and no Local pro's your guess is as good as mine who will come. I think if your at the later of the 3 you really need to consider if that is worth selling.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Detroitpete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/22/14 at 10:32am
I know the assertion that pros entertain the crowd 'better' than ams is a flawed assumption.  If you operate by that false axiom, and you have money on the line as an AD or Board member, you're not making an informed investment.  Pros throw farther.  But that doesn't naturally equate to more entertainment 'value'.  If you're putting money on the line, there's a lot more to include into your decision making.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eddie.brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/22/14 at 12:28pm
In Phoenix we had a groupon to get into the games for half price for 1 day entry.  When I've talked to people around town about the games and how I'd be competing on Sunday I heard responses like, "Yeah, I did the groupon deal but for Saturday because that's when the pro's throw." 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greg Hadley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/22/14 at 2:48pm
From my experience:

Pros+Marketing/Advertising+Knowledgeable Announcer = Success.

Additionally, I would argue that pros do enhance the entertainment value. Perhaps my Dad can share his thoughts. He was a heavy events marketing genius.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeff Ingram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/24/14 at 4:25pm
Originally posted by Detroitpete Detroitpete wrote:

I know the assertion that pros entertain the crowd 'better' than ams is a flawed assumption.  If you operate by that false axiom, and you have money on the line as an AD or Board member, you're not making an informed investment.  Pros throw farther.  But that doesn't naturally equate to more entertainment 'value'.  If you're putting money on the line, there's a lot more to include into your decision making.


This is true to a degree, but the ability to throw well does provide a large aspect of the entertainment factor. I've seen plenty of examples that support what you're saying- the guy who walks out of the tent, throws, then immediately back to the tent; repeat for 9 events.
This guy typically has a short career in my experience, or, loosens up a bit.

On the other side of the fence, my Games in Selkirk 2012 winning throw in the WOB, 17'7"; winning throw in 2013 (festival said "We're poor, no Pros please (but we're bringing in a magician from Scotland! Shhh!))- 11'.
The festival is 48 years old. I've been going since 1995.
think the crowd didn't know the difference between the level of throwing? They sure did.

Were both groups of guys solid, outgoing, interacting with the crowd and each other? Absolutely.
Cripes Langford was there try to get him to NOT talk to people.
Note- half of our "Open" group (often referred to as "Pros" in the marketing) are indeed Ams.

The announcer was suspect. Good looking, but iffy.

If you're the AD or the board then you have to think about the quality of your product (assuming you give a sh!t), and the distances and heights are all part of that.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Steiger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/24/14 at 8:54pm
I haven't posted here in a looooong time.  But here are my thoughts.

I agree 100% that a good knowledgeable announcer makes ALL the difference in the world.  They keep the crowd by keeping them engaged in the show (comp).  Some of the greats that I have know have been Frank Stasa III, (THE LATE) Bob Whitman, Francis Brebner, Phil Bearden, Larry Satchwell, Jason Pauli and many more.  There are others who can virtually kill the crowd interest by Starting off strong and end up non-existent.  The crowd wains as the quality of the announcing goes away.  Sometimes its due to a combination of the heat /cold mixed with single malt. I've seen athletes do thier best to resurrect a group of spectators.  How many times have I seen KO pick up an abandoned microphone and interject his own special brand of "Kentucky Fried Personality"  (all while putting up great numbers)? 

I also don't think it's fair to say that the audience either KNOWS or DOESN'T KNOW the difference.  Some people come to the same games year in and year out to see their favorites (PRO or AM).  Some definitely know and some are clueless.  I can remember throwing at Stone Mountain (back when I was doing pretty well with cabers)  I heard a voice (complete with real Scottish brogue), say "Come on DOOGIE, six o'clock".  I'm a little embarrassed to admit that it was my own uncle. He was born and partially raised in Scotland.  It still all comes back to the announcer.  He or she can make or break any level of competition.  I feel that games organizers pay attention to where the crowd migrates. 

I have friends who, whenever they introduce me to someone new, always point out what I do for fun.  I'd bet its not as common among pipers or sheep dog trainers.

Bottom line for me, is that I still love competing (mostly with my own self lately).  I plan to do it as long as I can.  I'll do more masters games.  But being on the field as a PRO and with the other PROS is noticeably different.  Not that masters guys or open AMS are any less dedicated or fun people.  I feel like the crowd (as a whole) give a different vibe.
I should be training, not posting!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C. Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/25/14 at 6:19am
+1 Jeff Ingram. 

Throwing farther is more entertaining, I don't really see how that's debatable from a crowd (visual) perspective.  It's no different than any other sport in that regard, bigger/faster/stronger/farther/etc as you move up the ranks.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bigirish01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/25/14 at 7:28am
Great discussion!
Last Year in Bellingham we started the first Pro Class. I counted on the good graces of generous Pros that came to compete for basically Prize money! We had a 10 man Pro class and it was awesome!
Who gains from having a Pro class? We all do! Ryan Stewart put on a Clinic Friday night and helped out 15-20 athletes! He stayed until everyone was done and all questions were asked.... He basically did it for peanuts!
IMO in order to grow our sport we should cultivate our Athlete classes! As most of us know once an athlete turns Pro he can cut the amount of competitions by half!
This season I went after the New Pros.... I got Duncan and Chuck Kasson... I think giving the "new Pros" a stepping stone to get their carreer going is good for everyone... Perhaps when they are World Champs they will remeber our Games fondly and want to return.
We got a Huge Return on our investment last season.... Because all of the Ams and Masters had a chance to watch and learn from the Pros... which is priceless to most of us!
The HG games committee this season gave us more money for our budget because they saw how attractive it was last year to have the Pro class... We had a huge audience!
 
You AD's who are tentative to start a Pro class because of money... You might be surprised at how cheap you can run a Pro class.... The generousity of most of these guys is amazing!
I truly cant see running Bellingham without a Pro class....
 
Its not always about what can the Pros to for your games..... sometimes its about what we can do for the Pro athletes...  The return on your investment doesnt have to be monetary.
Jay "Big Daddy" O'Neill
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Ryan Stewart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/25/14 at 8:39am
Jay and Jeff get it. They are 100% correct.

Another thing that can help you get a good pro class together if your games is on a budget is GREAT implements. No one wants to go throw a 30lb stone, short chain WFD, shit sheaf bag. But the Pros will come out number hunting when you have great stones and hammers-weights that will fly . That is about all the Utah games has now days. Money is bad but getting better. But our implements are the best out there.

Putting the Pro class together here is not easy. It is a TON of work. Finding sponsors on my days off, paying for shirts and food out of my own pocket and making sure the guys are taken care of. But it is worth every second of time and every penny I spend. I still have people ask me if "that huge guy who set the WOB world record" is coming back lol! People remember! And want to come back when you give them something special. Crowd loves the MONSTERS.
John Gallagher- "MASS MOVES MASS"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bigirish01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3/25/14 at 9:03am
True That Ryan! At Bellingham all of our implements are weighed and measured. Bret Lathrop pain stakingly paints all of the weights with a Canadian flag on one side and an American flag on the other!
New, but broken-in sheaves.
We mow the grass in and around the Trigs and take great pride in the details we put in. All trigs are freshly painted!
We make sure everyone is hydrating and sunscreened!
We have great interactive announcer... and I will announce as well.
You want the Pros to perform! Give em the stage! Ramp the crowd up and let them know who your Pros are! Let them know how far they throwing and if they are going for a record... Stop the Show and highlight the attempts!
 
Bret and I have traveled all over for games. We take the things we like and we know other athletes like and make it happen in our Games.
Our Motto at Bellingham is : "For Athletes by Athletes"
Jay "Big Daddy" O'Neill
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