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WALLY.OLECIK
Postaholic Joined: 10/10/08 Location: W. Seattle, WA Status: Offline Points: 1594 |
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But could you get longer throws with Stewie Griffin's head? And might you not run into copyright problems? lf you're going non-traditional, you have to make sure that it works!
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16lb-hammer(at)sshga.org
"Try not. Do or do not. There is no 'try!'" Yoda |
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agm_
Postaholic Joined: 8/29/04 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1196 |
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Nobody's demeaning the throws. And screw this "traditionalists" bullshit. In the case of WOB, spinning wasn't specifically prohibited by the written rules, so the debate was in large part over tradition vs written text, and traditionalists lost. This is different. Every major ruleset in North America and Scotland requires a specific shape for the hammer head. A half-sphere isn't pushing the limits of the written rules, it's breaking them. |
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mike landrich
Senior Member Joined: 4/12/09 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 306 |
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the word TRADITION was used many times defending the rule. As for WOB, someone found something that was neither traditional nor prohibited and took advantage of it. Why did the rules makers not change the rules to close what was a gaping hole, rather than insist on enforcing a restrictive rule like the hammer rule? Strongman is being ruined by Dione Wessels insistence on standardizing events. Let's do the same in HG with implements. Oh well, I charge more for sphere hammers, so its in my best interest to be a sheep and not say anything. But, this is wrong and I had to say my piece. |
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"Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level and win by experience"-Mark Twain
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Soul Eater
Senior Member Joined: 7/31/08 Location: Papua New Guinea Status: Offline Points: 950 |
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This is a discussion on an open forum, people are discussing this like adults. You don't have to agree with anyone. Last I looked this is America we were given this right to say what we want about this subject and we are. Nothing has been settled, and the opinions that everyone is bringing to the table are important because we are the ones responsible for where this sport ends up. This sport might be similar in 100 years or then again I could look allot different. But all of us, Pro,Masters, Am's and Women athletes are entrusted with this games future and we have a responsible decision to make about this. Spinning WOB is not done in Scotland, Canada, or most large games in the US that is fact. Will it go away who knows but it's peak has come and gone. The debate is about the word spherical and what it really means, the rule set guidelines suggest it means round. That is what we are trying to figure out.
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Borges
Postaholic The Conrad Dobler of the Highland Games Joined: 8/30/04 Location: Jamaica Status: Offline Points: 2188 |
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For the record, after the debates about spinning WOB nearly every country changed their rules to forbid it, as did several internationally recognized sets of rules. Kel is correct that many games in the US ban it. These local bans are FREQUENTLY motivated by a desire to prevent a fracture in how the games are conducted here vs. Scotland (the home of the games).
As for the ridiculous parsing over the meaning of the word spherical I can only laugh. I WROTE the rule sets used by several organizations. You want to use a dictionary to tell me what I meant by the word 'spherical'? And before anyone who doesn't know me tries to explain the meaning of the word 'spherical' to me you should take some time to find out what it is I do for a living. It's remotely possible that I know what it means.
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Cheers,
Carlos "Live free or die" |
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grasshopper
Postaholic Joined: 8/29/04 Location: Berwick, Maine Status: Offline Points: 3324 |
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Lol....
Carlos I wasn't implying you didn't know the meaning of spherical. I was just pointing out that the phrase complete sphere should have been used because a hemisphere falls under the realm of spherical. I like words. |
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"Breathe deeply. Refuse to be weak. Refuse to be sick. Refuse to die. Think strong and you will be." -The Mighty Atom (Yoselle Greenstein)
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Borges
Postaholic The Conrad Dobler of the Highland Games Joined: 8/30/04 Location: Jamaica Status: Offline Points: 2188 |
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If folks feel the need to get all lawyerly about it then complete sphere would be wrong too since it has a great big hole through the middle. They're rules for a game that are meant to confirm standards that are already well understood by most participants, not jury instructions.
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Cheers,
Carlos "Live free or die" |
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Borges
Postaholic The Conrad Dobler of the Highland Games Joined: 8/30/04 Location: Jamaica Status: Offline Points: 2188 |
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And for those of you who spend your days trying to create magic flyer hammers I have two words - depleted uranium.
If memory serves, the great Mike Smith had a tungsten 28 that he tinkered with. Helluva flyer.
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Cheers,
Carlos "Live free or die" |
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grasshopper
Postaholic Joined: 8/29/04 Location: Berwick, Maine Status: Offline Points: 3324 |
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Sorry Carlos. My wife's a lawyer...lol
We had this discussion about a decade ago on here and it was decide that a weight made from a neutron star would be the most effective implement! |
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"Breathe deeply. Refuse to be weak. Refuse to be sick. Refuse to die. Think strong and you will be." -The Mighty Atom (Yoselle Greenstein)
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Ryan Vierra
Senior Member World Champ - 96, 97, 98, 05, 06 Joined: 8/30/04 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 700 |
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This is all academic...Dan will crush those hammer distances in September and Ill add that he will own both weight records when this year is finished. Dan IS the best hammer thrower history has ever witnessed, with out question!
I like predictions, so here's what I feel he's capable of: 22 Hammer: 136 16 Hammer: 163 56 Weight: 52 28 Weight: 98 (All with spherical implements ) Get after it Dan! These distances are in your reach! |
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Highland Games Training Visit: www.IHGFTV.com My email: ryanvierra@worldheavyevents.com |
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Borges
Postaholic The Conrad Dobler of the Highland Games Joined: 8/30/04 Location: Jamaica Status: Offline Points: 2188 |
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No worries Grasshopper.
Neutron star sounds fun but you're limited to osmium or iridium on good old planet earth. You could try tungsten. It's almost 70% denser than lead so a 16 would come up substantially smaller than a lead 12, smaller still if you used a PVC handle with a tungsten plug to get that CM waaaaaaay out there. The brittleness might be a problem but with a proper alloy...Or you could just go out and train.
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Cheers,
Carlos "Live free or die" |
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rob meulenberg
Postaholic Joined: 9/11/10 Status: Offline Points: 1316 |
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Os at 13 grand per kilo seems like a bad choice. lol
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www.sportkilt.com
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C. Smith
Admin Group Retired Joined: 8/30/04 Location: Antarctica Status: Offline Points: 6661443 |
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52' and 98', huh?
It may seem like it initially, but just think...you could have a WORLD RECORD. Think about what that means. It's really a priceless return on a mere $166k investment. |
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Soul Eater
Senior Member Joined: 7/31/08 Location: Papua New Guinea Status: Offline Points: 950 |
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Os has some side effect's outside of the price, and oil and grip usually don't mix.
Finely divided metallic osmium is pyrophoric.[48] Osmium reacts with oxygen at room temperature forming volatile osmium tetroxide. Some osmium compounds are also converted to the tetroxide if oxygen is present.[48] This makes osmium tetroxide the main source of contact with the environment. Osmium tetroxide is highly volatile and penetrates skin readily, and is very toxic by inhalation, ingestion, and skin contact.[66] Airborne low concentrations of osmium tetroxide vapor can cause lung congestion and skin or eye damage, and should therefore be used in a fume hood.[17] Osmium tetroxide is rapidly reduced to relatively inert compounds bypolyunsaturated vegetable oils, such as corn oil.[67] |
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Borges
Postaholic The Conrad Dobler of the Highland Games Joined: 8/30/04 Location: Jamaica Status: Offline Points: 2188 |
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Simon P. Gillis did it with mercury which is a liquid at room temp, can't see how osmium would be anymore problematic than that.
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Cheers,
Carlos "Live free or die" |
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WALLY.OLECIK
Postaholic Joined: 10/10/08 Location: W. Seattle, WA Status: Offline Points: 1594 |
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Okay, call me a traditionalist. Call me old fashioned. (Just don't call me late for happy hour!) l have a working knowledge of aerodynamics that would permit me to design an aerodynamic, heavy metal 'spherical' hammer that would fly, baby, fly! Then, be faced with the lack of grass at the Claw which would make the distances seem very ordinary! So l plan to just continue to use our very traditional Bobby Dodd's with rattan handles 'cuz that's what Donald Dinnie would expect!
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16lb-hammer(at)sshga.org
"Try not. Do or do not. There is no 'try!'" Yoda |
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rogerws76
Senior Member Joined: 1/31/12 Location: Newcastle, CA Status: Offline Points: 234 |
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Ha! Donald Dinnie MAY have expected an actual Sledge Hammer Head! :)
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Roger
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rogerws76
Senior Member Joined: 1/31/12 Location: Newcastle, CA Status: Offline Points: 234 |
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Interesting History of he Hammer Throw:
From: http://www.jardine-electronics.com/gpj/athletics/hist.html
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Roger
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McSanta
Postaholic Joined: 4/12/05 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1595 |
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* Awesome throw Dan * We do not need a governing body as the rules are all about the same. * Field records matter, fictitious ranking in database does not * things that do not adapt, may risk dying. Things that adapt to fast, may also risk dying. This is where we are with a sport that has equal part heritage. * Bringing up spin/stand or all the other side issues muddies the water more than helps it (MHO) Why do people have half sphere (Hemispherical) hammers? I know why I had half sphere hammers -- I could not afford manufactured hammers and Hemispherical hammers are easy to make. They maybe easier to make but in the long run they are more expensive as they break handles way to often. (I broke 100 handles in one game in August after the ground was back all summer). Why Sphere matters in the rules - length of Lever -- Hemispherical hammers move the center of mass further down the handle leading to a longer lever. This tread needs some math! Assuming lead head hammers: * A spherical 22lb hammer's diameter is just under 5' , which implies center of mass at 2.5" from end of hammer. * Using the same model but building a hemisphere hammer, the diameter is 6.21" and center of mass from end of hammer = Radius - 3/8 Radius = 1.94" Both calculations of center of mass assume solid shapes and not one with a whole for a hammer handle. Never the less, the center of mass is moved by more than 1/2". So yes the shape of a hammer matters. What is the foundation for changing the rules? If you want to change the rules to allow other shape that do it logically and restrict the minimum distance up from the bottom of the handle that the center of mass can be -- this way my hammers and soup can hammers and the like would be legal as there is no potential competitive advantage but big cost savings for the smaller games. -- I think the compromise suggested that the record stands but any future records need to be thrown with a spherical shaped hammer is a solid solution. Edited by McSanta - 6/24/14 at 11:26pm |
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Mark McVey
"The work of science is to substitute facts for appearances and demonstrations for impressions." -John Ruskin |
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brandell
Postaholic Joined: 8/29/04 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2433 |
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I'll take the more 'Legal' view on this. The rule says 'Should be', not 'Shall Be' or 'Must Be'. Therefore there should be no issue.
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Sammy68123
Senior Member Joined: 6/15/08 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 735 |
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What rulebook are you looking at? All the ones I have on hand (five of them) say "shall be". |
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Teresa Merrick
Bellevue, NE |
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brandell
Postaholic Joined: 8/29/04 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2433 |
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Geez.... Always raining on my parade... |
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