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Detroitpete View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Detroitpete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/05/15 at 6:02pm
I'm starting to understand the points process for athletes, but what I'm looking to learn more about is, how does this translate into increased revenue for our festivals?  Maybe I'm trying to compare apples to car parts here and they are independent outcomes?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheJeff696 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/05/15 at 6:41pm
I can see certain festivals promoting the throwing by mentioning on their websites or programs that their Heavy Athletics event is part of the SGL circuit and maybe mentioning who is leading the points race for their region. 

Could give people some perspective on who to look for or make them more interested. Point systems and circuits are easy to understand. Thanks NASCAR! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wsciscoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/05/15 at 9:04pm
Right on Jeff! The points system is easy to understand. I think a lot of games have a croud watching that thinks what we do is neat but they don't understand what we are competing for. Some may even think we are just doing demos. Chasing points and comparing it to NASCAR is great for the fans.
I think sometimes we forget that we are the entertainment at these festivals.
No fans= No Games
Old enough to know better. Still too young to care.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wsciscoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/05/15 at 9:09pm
I am eager to watch the SGL grow.
The only concern I have is that people will stay in their region to hopefully win that region and large games that have people from all over the country will diminish some do to lack of competitors in there are.
Any thoughts on that guys?
Old enough to know better. Still too young to care.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duncan McCallum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/06/15 at 12:36am
Originally posted by wsciscoe wsciscoe wrote:

I am eager to watch the SGL grow.
The only concern I have is that people will stay in their region to hopefully win that region and large games that have people from all over the country will diminish some do to lack of competitors in there are.
Any thoughts on that guys?
 
And that is the decision they, the Athletes, have to make.  It's the same one they've always had to make and will continue to have to make in the future.  It sucks that there are only so many weekends in the year, and that Games are sometimes on the same weekend; believe me, there have been SO MANY times I wanted to be in two places at once.
 
But this isn't a new issue, and it isn't the SGL's duty to solve it.  If an Athlete wants to be the SGL Regional Champion for his or her respective region then that is their business; if it means they skip Pleasanton or Portland or Loon to win a local SGL Regional Games to do so, well, once again that is up to them.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rob meulenberg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/06/15 at 5:45am
Originally posted by Duncan McCallum Duncan McCallum wrote:

But this isn't a new issue, and it isn't the SGL's duty to solve it.  If an Athlete wants to be the SGL Regional Champion for his or her respective region then that is their business; if it means they skip Pleasanton or Portland or Loon to win a local SGL Regional Games to do so, well, once again that is up to them.


This is a solid post, and full of reality.  SGL or not, people have to make these type of decisions all the time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Detroitpete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/06/15 at 10:05am
So then how is this league different for NASGA rankings?  Do we actually think that the festivals and the vast majority of the spectators know, or even care about a particular athlete's points?  I'm not against the SGL--just trying to figure things out.  My opinion really doesn't mean shit, but I may be asking the same questions others are thinking about.

So far what I've been able to understand is that it's being set up by decent guys with a goal for 'improvement'.  It will give throwers another point system to base their 'rankings' on.  It will co-name certain games as SGL regional 'championships', whereby an athlete may choose to bypass a festival/game that they traditionally may have attended, in order to compete at a 'championship'.  Some throwers may bounce from region to region to see if they can hold multiple 'titles'.

What I see so far is focused on the athletes.  I'm not sure of the formula that turns this into additional financial support for local festivals.

..and the whole NASCAR reference is totally lost on me.  I'm from the North.  What do stock car drivers do other than turn left for 2 hours? :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nathan Parker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/06/15 at 10:47am
Originally posted by Detroitpete Detroitpete wrote:



..and the whole NASCAR reference is totally lost on me.  I'm from the North.  What do stock car drivers do other than turn left for 2 hours? :)
 
They punch other drivers in the face.
 
Mark-  I think you are points are well taken.  I do think taking care of athletes, and motivating throwers does help festivals i.e. better product/better throwers/new throwers/new fans.  Also, I dont know of many same weekend games in our region?  My schedule is mostly set.  I know of one weekend that I've made a decision in the past.  I also dont know a single guy anywhere(and you know I travel a bit) that would care about winning multiple regions, or has the bank account to support that goal.  As for the fans not knowing about rankings.  Its because no one tells them.  If they knew, I bet they would interseted. If nothing else, it gives the announcer more stuff to talk about to the crowd.
 
This thing is a baby right now.  If we raise it right, then it will be come something we all proud of.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nathan Parker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/06/15 at 10:56am
Also how many throwers will attend more games than in the past, or maybe travel for a game or two that never did before?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rob meulenberg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/06/15 at 11:03am
Originally posted by Detroitpete Detroitpete wrote:

So then how is this league different for NASGA rankings?  Do we actually think that the festivals and the vast majority of the spectators know, or even care about a particular athlete's points?  I'm not against the SGL--just trying to figure things out.  My opinion really doesn't mean shit, but I may be asking the same questions others are thinking about.

NASGA takes an athletes' BEST throws.  It is a decathlon scoring system.  The SGL scoring system takes the RESULTS from a games and gives points based on those particular results.  So it doesn't matter if someone went 58' with the open stone on a downhill field.  All that matters is how they place.  But that 58' stone could bump someone up huge in the NASGA board.


Originally posted by Detroitpete Detroitpete wrote:

So far what I've been able to understand is that it's being set up by decent guys with a goal for 'improvement'.  It will give throwers another point system to base their 'rankings' on.  It will co-name certain games as SGL regional 'championships', whereby an athlete may choose to bypass a festival/game that they traditionally may have attended, in order to compete at a 'championship'.  Some throwers may bounce from region to region to see if they can hold multiple 'titles'.

Let's be clear, there are NO further championships, other than the "inter regional" that will be held in 2016.  Each regional co-chair selects games from their typical circuit.  More than likely, it is games that everyone goes to anyway.  For instance, I already know most of the New England throwers as we are all at the same games.  If you win, you get 10 points.  At the end of the 7-10 SGL "season" whoever has the most points wins.  Simple.

Again, as Duncan points out, if an athlete CHOOSES to go to one game over another for whatever reason, that is on them.  I know that I really wanted to be at the ECCs this year, but I wanted to be at Pleasanton more.  I made that choice.


Originally posted by Detroitpete Detroitpete wrote:

What I see so far is focused on the athletes.  I'm not sure of the formula that turns this into additional financial support for local festivals.

Mike and his team have put a lot of work into this aspect, and I'm sure they have a good answer.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C. Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/06/15 at 11:19am
Was it suggested somewhere that this would turn into "additional financial support for local festivals"?  I don't remember that being mentioned by anyone. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote grasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/06/15 at 11:47am
Why not have a regional championship game based on the rankings and then the winner of that goes on to a nation (or super regional) championship?   I just can see a situation where the best thrower does not necessarily win the region in terms of points because they didnt throw in enough games or something.   I know what most of the responses to this will be.......he/she should have thrown in more game......maybe I just answered my own question.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nathan Parker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/06/15 at 11:59am
TROB- two equal throwers compete all season, but one travels to the Grand Canyon Highland games and all of the sudden jumps 50 spots in the rankings. Or one throws crappy stones all year, while the others are perfect. The rankings are the best thing we have, but it doesn't always tell the story.

Head to head is where it's at.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jsully Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/06/15 at 11:59am
Originally posted by grasshopper grasshopper wrote:

Why not have a regional championship game based on the rankings and then the winner of that goes on to a nation (or super regional) championship?   I just can see a situation where the best thrower does not necessarily win the region in terms of points because they didnt throw in enough games or something.   I know what most of the responses to this will be.......he/she should have thrown in more game......maybe I just answered my own question.....


this can be solved by averaging the scores.

If thrower A takes 4th place in 10 games
vs thrower B who takes 1st place in 4 games

thrower A could technically win the region because they competed more. This doesn't mean they're a better thrower.

Averaging results would fix that.

This has probably already been considered though since they're talking about athletes choosing regional games over other games.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C. Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/06/15 at 12:15pm
If winning a region means something to you, then get out and do as many games as you need to make that happen. 

F averaging results for a scoring system like this. 




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rob meulenberg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/06/15 at 12:24pm
Tony, you know I love you, but you answered your own question.  Also, in sport, it isn't always the best team that wins.  Even in an individual sport, it isn't always the best person in the sport that wins every time.  I don't think anyone would argue that a few years back, Tiger Woods was the greatest golfer on the planet and even sometimes he'd lose.  Or perhaps he wouldn't enter a tournament and someone else would win.  Doesn't mean they were better than Tiger.

Let's keep this simple folks.  Averaging or any deviations from a simple points count just complicates the hell out of things.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rob meulenberg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/06/15 at 12:30pm
And I think people are making too much out of these so-called regional games.  Folks, the SGL is not making up new games.  The games that exist still exist and the SGL is just planning on using the results from those games towards the rankings.  NOTHING CHANGES.

For Am Men, the ONLY "national" level games (off the top of me head) that MAY interfere with a local game are the Claw, Pleasanton, MN Ren Fest.  Any other ones?  Right there that's 3 weekends.  That's it.  And let's be honest, besides MN, most of those games are not drawing nationwide competitors.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jsully Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/06/15 at 12:37pm
Originally posted by C. Smith C. Smith wrote:

If winning a region means something to you, then get out and do as many games as you need to make that happen. 

F averaging results for a scoring system like this. 








<3

glad we're on the same page.

I'm interested to see how this turns out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Juli Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/06/15 at 12:41pm
Originally posted by C. Smith C. Smith wrote:

Was it suggested somewhere that this would turn into "additional financial support for local festivals"?  I don't remember that being mentioned by anyone. 



Yes. It is one of the expectations/goals. To increase ticket revenue by attracting hi-caliber athletes which will attract more spectators. Granted, that seems to be far off in the future but it is a goal. 

jp
You have to stop doing that Juli, if it worked we'd all be doing it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phatmiked Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/06/15 at 12:51pm
Thanks everyone for the questions and crosstalk.  As Rob mentioned, we are in our infancy and hustling our asses off.  We are almost finished with our "formative phase".  Bear with us as we work to build the league and provide information.

It has been requested/suggested buy a few folks that we send out a short video regarding some of the common questions that people have, particularly regarding our mission/vision/path ahead.  I think this is a good idea particularly since talking often conveys information better than texting, especially on a forum.  

So, we will cut a short video and post it as our "Sunday PSA". 

In the meantime, for those who haven't seen them yet, the "About the SGL" and FAQs pages on the current site have some good information. 
The new site will launch on the 15th.  It will have all of the Regional Chairs and schedules that have been finalized on each Region's page.

I will say that we envision, and hope, that our efforts in building the league and promoting the sport will prove beneficial to the Highland games community as a whole.  Not just the Athletes, but the ADs, festivals, fans, and someday the greater sporting public.

Thank you for the interest and support so far!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rob meulenberg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/06/15 at 1:03pm
Oh, and one thing about your point of regional championships Tony.  There is nothing stopping people from using the SGL series as a means to determine regional championships.  I am sure one would have to coordinate with Mike to see if it could officially be linked to the SGL.

For instance (for those that don't know), our Men's Am New England Champs are at Loon.  There is nothing preventing Wayne from using the NorthEast SGL season results to dictate who gets invited to Loon.  But the results from Loon would be just that.  They would not be used to dictate an overall SGL champion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wsciscoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/06/15 at 1:07pm
Originally posted by C. Smith C. Smith wrote:

If winning a region means something to you, then get out and do as many games as you need to make that happen. 



yup
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phatmiked Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/06/15 at 1:08pm
In case it hasn't already been stated, or isn't obvious, Rob is one of the RCs for the Northeast Region. 

Don't forget, he is a Rocket Scientist.  Wink

And, in case it was missed earlier, the Regional Chairs will be posted when the new site is launched on the 15th, along with all the schedules that are finalized.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C. Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/06/15 at 1:16pm
Originally posted by Juli Peterson Juli Peterson wrote:

To increase ticket revenue by attracting hi-caliber athletes which will attract more spectators.


We've had many discussions on here regarding this (see just about every pro v. am debate), and I think it's pretty well established that particular athletes being a financial draw doesn't happen in our "sport", unfortunately. 

We have to look at who the spectators actually are at the games, and with just a few exceptions, the average festival goer has no idea who is who with regards to the athletes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nathan Parker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/06/15 at 1:21pm
Which is why having a quality announcer is so important IMO. I bet there are a fair amount of people who know who you and KO are here in Alma. It's because Mike Brown does a great job with the mic.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wsciscoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/06/15 at 1:29pm
Too many games are a bunch of guys silently throwing in the corner field of a festival.
Old enough to know better. Still too young to care.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C. Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/06/15 at 1:50pm
Originally posted by Nathan Parker Nathan Parker wrote:

Which is why having a quality announcer is so important IMO. I bet there are a fair amount of people who know who you and KO are here in Alma. It's because Mike Brown does a great job with the mic.


I agree 100% with that. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Detroitpete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/06/15 at 2:55pm
+1 on Mike Brown as an announcer.

I really trust Mike D. is doing this with all the best of intentions, so my questioning is not a back-handed way to trash any of this--I'm just trying to get an idea about specifics and I'm appreciative of the answers given here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JustinBlatnik Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/06/15 at 3:08pm
One of the biggest questions I have that has seemed to be skipped over is what goes into the deciding factor as to what games are SGL or not? In my area, there are some larger games that are not being included, such as Grandfather Mtn, Loch Norman, Stone Mtn, etc. Why is it that these large games are being left off? Is it to try to draw more competitors to smaller games or games that need more revenue in a sense?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote greynolds177 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1/06/15 at 5:37pm
Greetings from the Highlands.

First of all can I congratulate everybody concerned with the design of the SGL and all the hard work that has been undertaken thus far to get you to where you are today. 

Apart from the absence of the word "Highland" in the title (for which I am sure there is a perfectly good reason which I am sure somebody will share with me in due course); I think that this adaptation of some of the principles of Fantasy Football or Baseball to create something wonderful in cyberspace for everybody to engage with, share, enjoy and be motivated by; is without doubt the most exciting development in Highland Games that I have seen in the 16 years that I have been involved in this sport.

I am sure that the same principles could be used with some success to generate interest here in Europe and I wish you all every success in creating something so good that it will be impossible to ignore here in Scotland. 

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