Masters Women's weight for distance

Good stuff Kevin....Terri actually threw the 28 wfd better in 2005-7( years that she wasn't at MWC) hitting 42 feet in over 10 games@45 years of age( no doubt being pushed by young studette athletes like Kate Mason,and Lacy Johnston ) topping out at 44-7 at the Altamont games...Terri and I have never met Erica Hay( great person/athlete from what I hear) but have met Laura at a few games and think she is way capable of throwing some huge 28 bombs this year!

Kevin,

It's time to standardize the 21# HWD/WOB for all women's age/weight classes at MWC, beginning this year. Failing to do so puts SMAI in violation of its own published rules (21 Jan 2015) stating the following:

“SMAI shall not adopt any practice, policy or procedure which would result in discrimination on the basis of age, race, sex, national origin, religion or creed.”

Maintaining the current double standard whereby women age 40-44 must use a 28# weight for the HWD and WOB while any and all other women’s categories use the 21# weight results in discrimination on the basis of both age and sex. Master’s men in all age and weight categories throw the only the 42# weight for those two events.

Most Highland Games events for master’s women in North America define the class as beginning at age 40, the same as with men. In doing so, they have used the 21# weight for HWD/WOB whenever it was available. Unfortunately, master’s women age 40-44 who have thrown the 21# in HWD/WOB have not been able to set world records in these events because SMAI has not recognized or maintained world records for the 21# HWD/WOB. In contrast, master’s men have not had to suffer any similar exclusion from SMAI’s world records with the 42# weight.

We understand that 28# HWD/WOB was the only thing available in 2003; we respect those performances. Records set with the 28# weight in HWD/WOB by women age 40-44 should be now be retired to allow new records tracked by SMAI to be set with the 21# weight. The 28# records can be turned over to AGM who tracks the other world records (e.g. 56# WOB for men's masters).

Times have changed: master's women surveyed both in 2013 and now overwhelmingly agree that the 21# HWD/WOB should begin at age 40 for women just as the 42# weight begins at age 40 for men.

dWood wrote: Teresa, if anything( and being one of the biggest supporters of women athletes) I think it should be 28 straight across the board for all women but myself and my training partner say throw whatever they put in front of you...why keep trying to buck Kevins good work..just roll with it and throw

1) Kevin posted the topic first.

2) If you believe that master's men should throw the 56# HWD/WOB, then it certainly makes sense to keep 28# HWD/WOB for master's men. But that's not how it is. Men throw 42# HWD/WOB beginning at age 40, no matter the age or weight category. Master's women should be able to throw the 21# HWD/WOB at MWC just as they are doing at most of the other games in North America whenever the weight is available. Many of us have acquired our own 21# weight and ADs are happy to let master's women throw it when we bring it. Interestingly, at KC Scottish Festival last year, there were more master's women throwing than open women.    

Kevin you opened the door when you changed to the 21 for some masters women....all Masters Men throw the 42# HWFD.... Proportionately the women should ALL throw the same weight... that would be the 21#

Dan pointed this thread out to me and I wanted to put my .02 in....first off was honored to go,compete,and win the 1st womens class at MWC and not only appreciate the opportunity given to me by Kevin to showcase my talents but the effort he put in making the MWC such a great event. While my days of slinging the 28 over 40 feet are over,if he decided to have the 50+ women throw the 28 I would! At the end of the day the farthest throw wins and I train my butt off to be there whether it be a 14,21,28, heck even a 42 I would throw..it is called HEAVY EVENTS. Do I like throwing the 21- it's ok,but the 28 is fine also..whatever Kevin puts out there I will throw! While life and kids growing up got in the way of going to other MWCs I haven't stopped throwing and plan on throwing heavy things far on 9/26 and 27. I can honestly say I am a fan of bill Scruggs,Kevin Rogers,and the whole MWC brand and hope they get the recognition they deserve for all there hard work!

I look forward to taking a crack at the records set with the 28# and I respect the work that Terri, Laura and Erica have done to set them. See you in St. Louis :D

bwhahahahahahahahhaahhaha, such crusades. 

But that "half of everything" theory that people seem to like, shouldn't the "LW" women's class be 100lbs then?  Cause I'll tell you what, 150lbs, or whatever it currently is, completely absurd considering many of the best women past and present weighed right around that.  Different discussion for a different day I suppose. 

I might come to St. Louis just to hang out at this point.   

Beth-

K Rogers wrote: So, look- In my life, I've been called rude and arrogant, a sexist and a hard-ass, a baby-killer and causing cancer, and even a Nazi, ... but now Teresa says that my decision to use the 28 for the weight for distance is like slavery. That's a new one for me. Slavery ... just imagine that. That's what she thinks. She even says that its unjust and discrimination to let the women throw the 28 at Worlds. I hope that most women don't follow her down that hole into her fantasy land. Rather than convince me that the 28 is too heavy for women, she is determined to convince me that its discrimination. Let me just say it again, we disagree. I do not abide by the hair-brained theory being proposed that the 28 is too heavy for women. And comparing our traditions for the MWC with slavery is simply a moment in a unhinged mind. -K

Kevin,

It's sad that you have resorted to personal attacks ("unhinged mind") and name calling. The facts are the facts:

1) You were the one who first published the rules of SMAI, stating the following:

“SMAI shall not adopt any practice, policy or procedure which would result in discrimination on the basis of age, race, sex, national origin, religion or creed.”

2) So far, you have not refuted the fact that the current practice/policy of maintaining the 28# HWD/WOB for W40-44 while all other women’s categories use the 21# weight results in discrimination on the basis of both age and sex. All men's categories, regardless of age and body weight, use the same HWD/WOB--42#.

3) Essentially you're saying that you can pick and choose to continue whatever practices, policies, or procedures you wish, even if they violate the rules you published for SMAI as an organization, as long as you are upholding tradition or have some other well-intentioned motivation.

4) A tradition of only 12 years pales in comparison to many other longer-standing "traditions" in history that have existed to justify discrimination. Slavery was simply an extreme example of upholding tradition.

5) Master's age women who wish to break records with the 28# HWD/WOB can do so in any HG by entering the women's open division and having their age and performance certified by the judge or AD and sending info to AGM. If SMAI is not tracking world records in the 56# HWD/WOB set by master's men, then AGM can do so for both master's men throwing 56# HWD/WOB (he currently lists 56# WOB) and master's women throwing 28# HWD/WOB. The elite athletes will set a high standard with the 21# HWD/WOB as well.

6) You posted your analysis of the 28# weight performance first, inviting comment. If you're using a 30'-plus HWD throw as a threshold to decide "heavy", a much greater percentage of men throw 30'-plus in the 42# HWD at MWC than women throw 30'-plus in the 28#. Your stats mentioned 1 in 4 for the women: 25%. My count for the same age groups in men (M40-44, M45-49, and M<200 40-49)for just MWC 2013 and 2014 shows that 62% to 76% of them threw 30'-plus. Unless you're planning to return to the 56# HWD for the men age 40-44, it's clear that the 28# HWD for the master's women as a whole doesn't produce a performance equivalent to the 42# HWD for master's men of the same age.

7) Again, I'm disappointed that you felt you had to attack me personally, especially since I have nothing to gain from a change on this issue at MWC. I'm pointing out the discrepancy between what you have published--SMAI non-discrimination rule--and what you are doing--keeping the 28# HWD/WOB for W40-44 instead of using the 21#, while the men use the 42# for all age/weight classes.

Teresa-

Teresa-

Kevin just so you know my wife is laughing her ass off, and She says that it's nice to see some one point out where we have been and people should stop whinning about what they dont have yet, and realize what they have gained through the effort and support of people like you. And she has 20+ years of looking back and says boy we have come a long way, and she said she would throw what ever you put in front of her. 

K Rogers wrote: Teresa- You are aware that the cabers will be heavy too, right? -K

OMG-that was priceless

T&F Weight throw - men's record is 25.86m; women's record is 25.56m Women throw the 20lb to men's 35lb implement

Wow.

Mud slinging, hair pulling, eye gouging, and the good old groin kicks!!!!

Maybe the next reality show on TV.... "Highland Games Capers" (See what I did there? :))

Question from the newb.

1. What is the governing body for these games?

2. What are the rules regarding the implements for those games?

Why not just stick to whatever the rules/charter states?