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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote agm_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 8/26/14 at 1:09pm
Originally posted by scottm scottm wrote:

Congratulations to Travis Gardner and Daniel Goulet for setting (2) world records last weekend at the Leger Invitational in Cashiers, NC in the Light 16# Sheaf Toss. Travis cleared 39' 2" (which was the maximum height of sheaf towers)

Minor correction: Travis broke the Amateur record, and also broke the US record.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C. Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 8/27/14 at 7:34am
I have heard that this game had zero vendors and only one piper?

Is that true?  And if that's true, should these records even be considered?


For the Pro marks to count:

Quote Results must come from games that provide all the festivities of a Scottish Highland Games. No 'backyard' games will be accepted.



I would think these minimum standards should be met in any record throw, regardless of class, no?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flame of Idaho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 8/27/14 at 11:17am
Well why in the world would there have to be pipers and dancers and vendors to legitimize a THROW. No "backyard" games would be considered backyard games if they have enough money to host pros, anyway. Those others certainly add an atmosphere, but don't really have any difference from an heavy events only game. That's silly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C. Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 8/27/14 at 11:33am
Are you asking why a Highland Games World Record would have to take place at an actual Highland Games?

You really think that if I have 5 guys in kilts over to my house and we throw the events that it's ok to set a record in that situation?

There have been plenty of backyard games and throws disqualified from the rankings, because they were just that, backyard games.  It only comes up with the pro rankings because there are invites and money attached to them.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve Conway Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 8/27/14 at 11:46am
First off, congrats to Travis Gardner and David Goulet on the new sheaf records, great throws. Second, Scott Farr asked if he could weigh in the morning of the games and I said yes, I don't see a problem with it, I agree with Craig S., it's no different then age. Lastly, don't pull the tape as hard as you can...it will stretch and give you a shorter mark.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve Conway Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 8/27/14 at 12:15pm
P.S. Burger Lambrehts threw 61+ with the open stone at Worlds, he's 42 yrs old...is that a record?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C. Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 8/27/14 at 12:23pm
Absolutely imo.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flame of Idaho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 8/27/14 at 1:42pm
Perhaps I'm just concerned that your definition of a "backyard" game is ANY where there are only the throwing events contested. My group host several a year with just the athletics. Though some are small, we conduct them with as much professionalism and rules strictness as any major festival. I certainly would not consider them backyard games.
5 guys throwing at your house is a back yard game.
 
Regarding the tape measure, of course pulling it as hard as you can will give a shorter reading. That's the point: "We don't have a steel tape measure long enough, so pulling the other as hard as we can and verifying with a second" was a way for that game to show that given any errors in measuring--even taking the shortest of possible measurements, that throw still went farther than the previous record. True, it might be a quarter inch longer if a steel tape could be measured, but either way the old record was broken indisputably.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scottm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 8/28/14 at 11:32am
Please refer back to original post and the validity of the world records set by Travis Gardner and Daniel Goulet. Have been ADing games since 2006 and also head official at many track & field venues where I am responsible for weights and measures plus usually wind up officiating at least (2) throwing events. Hopefully I can provide some clarity of all the measurements.

As in original post, the weigh-in was conducted by myself, Ed Bodenheimer, Robert Blackmon and observed by Ted Leger. The weigh in was conducted on a hard wooden level surface with a digital scale. The verification for height was verified by same as mentioned above and the bag was weighed on (3) different certified scales.

Accuracy of equipment used: the weigh-in scale and (2)of the scales used to weigh the bag were calibrated to latest N.I.S.T. (National Institute of Standards Technology)requirements. When the tapes for height were verified against a certified steel tape the height was actually 3/8" better; meaning that heights would have been in reality 39' 2-3/8" and 34' 6-3/8", but we only measure to the inch below the fraction.

Hopefully this eliminates some confusion and puts focus on the actual awesome throws by (2) men that had a great game.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C. Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 8/28/14 at 12:04pm
Scott,

No one is questioning the weight or measurement, or your ability to perform the functions of a judge. 

I received information that these records were not set at an actual highland games/festival.  That there was no vendors, and maybe only piper, essentially making this a backyard games.  Having never been to this game, I have no idea.  Can you speak to that? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote K Rogers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 8/29/14 at 10:19am
"P.S. Burger Lambrehts threw 61+ with the open stone at Worlds, he's 42 yrs old...is that a record?"

Yes, our current Scottish Masters Record for the open stone is 57'2.5" for the 40-44 age group.

If anyone cares enough to get it recorded in our ScottishMasters.org records, then they could send the details to me. I'll be glad to update the records with a monster 60+ throw, but unless someone sends it in I may never hear of it. Obviously, there's no coordinated effort to submit record throws to the our Masters website. Its entirely a voluntary effort with only sketchy data quality without some help from our friends. If the AD or the thrower doesn't know of us or care about the record then it may not ever be kept as a record on our website because of the failure of any coordinated system among Highland Games.

I'll keep updating the Records pages with the big throws that are sent to me.

-K

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WALLY.OLECIK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 8/29/14 at 8:15pm
Originally posted by C. Smith C. Smith wrote:

For the Pro marks to count:
Quote Results must come from games that provide all the festivities of a Scottish Highland Games. No 'backyard' games will be accepted.


I would think these minimum standards should be met in any record throw, regardless of class, no?
Curious where you found this rule, Craig.  lt's not in any rule set l can think of.  lt lS, however, in the rules for the ranking pages for the Classic and for the Claw!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TedL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 9/01/14 at 12:35pm
Wally,
I am addressing this post to you as you seem to be a reasonable person.
Scott Medlin, the A. D. for the game has addressed this issue, but clearly not to the satisfaction of Mr. Smith. As we can all tell by the numerous posts by Mr. Smith regarding these games and World Record sheaf numbers, NO response will be good enough for Mr. Smith. Now, Mr. Smith would like to have us all believe that he is doing this all for the integrity of the games, however we can all see through that. Mr. Smith has NO MORE integrity concerning these games than I do. For some reason, Mr. Smith is hell bent on having these games declared “backyard games”. I don’t know why, only he knows. Mr. Smith has stated that he has not ever been invited to my games and that any information he has received about my games has been by an unnamed, third party. Mr. Smith has made no attempt to contact me directly via phone, email, Nasga, or Facebook.
1.     In the three years I have been putting on these games, I have made EVERY effort to ensure that the games are indeed NOT “back yard” games. As far as I knew, I had dotted every “I” and crossed every “t”.
2.     I have hired S.H.A.G to run the games. This year’s judges were Ed Bodenheimer, Robert Blackman and score keeper, Chad Clark. I did not judge, pull tape or in any other way participate in the outcome of the games.
3.     There actually were two vendors on-site, a food vendor that served beer, wine, water, soda and sandwiches from Boars Head meats and a clothing vendor. I hired yet a third vendor to cater the lunch for the athletes.
4.     The manager of the resort also provided a shuttle (all day) to shuttle any athlete, resort guest, family member of an athlete, or anyone from the public, out to the field from the main lobby.
5.     Yes, a piper was hired, Mr. Steve Agan out of Asheville. He did a tremendous job and even played Star Wars on the bag pipes which the spectators enjoyed and added to the festivities.
6.     Lastly, not that it is anyone’s business, but it seems to be an important fact to some, I spent $13, 596.40 on the Leger Invitational this year. Now, if I just wanted to put on a back yard games, I could have had everyone up to the farm, had them pitch tents, and feed them burgers and dogs for lunch and have a keg for after and saved myself about $13,000.
This is the link to the resort where the games were held this year: www.HighHamptoninn.com
I created these games as a way of giving back to a sport, that in my opinion, has personally done a lot for me. It is an amateur game for six As and six Bs. I do it to thank them for continuing to stay with the sport, help grow the sport, and for all the sacrifices they make to come to the games from gas money, sharing hotels, leaving their kids and spouses for the weekend, AND the commitment it takes to work all day, balance all that and practice. Anyone who has attended my games can tell you that there is no selfish motive on my part. I just wanted to give back to the sport.
Now, not all games can be big games like Pleasanton, Loch Norman, Grand Father or Stone Mountain. There have to be small regional games some so the athletes can gain the experience to be invited to the larger, more prestigious games. Just because a game is small does not make it a “backyard” game and therefore insignificant. We have these games so novices can try, Bs and try and become As, and so some As, can go on and become Pros. I don’t know of any Pro that walked onto his or her first game as a Pro, do you?

I believe the intention of the “back yard” games rules was to ensure that a group of Pros, Ams, or mix did not just get together at someone’s farm and judge and score each other to bump up their standing on Nasga or to enter a bogus World Record, not to discourage the continuation of more small games. There are many games that have gone by the wayside in the last few years, at least in my area. People like me and others are trying to keep some games alive that have been around for twenty years and for one reason or other have lost their funding. I agree with minimum requirements, but if we get like the EPA , there will be no more smaller games. If you set a precedent of going after games once they are over, you will have to do it for all the previous games as well. And, you will have to set up a more rigid system on Nasga for A. D’s. entering games and there will most likely have to be a Nasga representative at every single game going forward. If ONE person can try to undermine the integrity of one game, then ANYONE can do the same to any other game, even the bigger games. Just because a game is big doesn’t ensure that the judging is fare or accurate. I’ve been involved in these games for twelve years and I can tell you that my games are legitimate games, follow the rules (as written, not interpreted for personal reasons) and the scores represent fair and accurate judging.
This is the last thing I am going to say about it.
Thank you for your time and attention.

Ted Leger

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C. Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 9/01/14 at 4:04pm
Originally posted by WALLY.OLECIK WALLY.OLECIK wrote:

 Curious where you found this rule, Craig.  lt's not in any rule set l can think of.  lt lS, however, in the rules for the ranking pages for the Classic and for the Claw!

Curious where you saw that I called this a rule, Wally.  You basically just confirmed what I wrote, for the Pro scores to count in the rankings, they follow that standard.  

Are we talking in circles?  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C. Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 9/01/14 at 4:04pm
Originally posted by TedL TedL wrote:

As we can all tell by the numerous posts by Mr. Smith regarding these games and World Record sheaf numbers, NO response will be good enough for Mr. Smith. Now, Mr. Smith would like to have us all believe that he is doing this all for the integrity of the games, however we can all see through that. Mr. Smith has NO MORE integrity concerning these games than I do. For some reason, Mr. Smith is hell bent on having these games declared “backyard games”. I don’t know why, only he knows. Mr. Smith has stated that he has not ever been invited to my games and that any information he has received about my games has been by an unnamed, third party.

You are either being intentionally obtuse, or have the reading and comprehension skills of Floyd Mayweather.

If I'm not doing this for integrity of the games, please tell me and everyone else what my motivation is.  Especially since you "can see through that".  

I'm not hellbent on having it declared anything, but your response below clears it up.  I did receive information stating such, and instead of just providing an answer, you chose to act like an asshole.  Which I guess is par for the course, since it's the 2nd or 3rd time in this thread you've done that.  

I'm gonna recap the thread for you, since you've clearly missed it:

-Scott Medlin posts regarding the records.

-Scott Farr asks legitimate questions.

-You respond by ignoring Scott Farr's questions and attacking him for no reason.  

-I call you out for acting like that to Scott.

-You respond by attacking me and stating I'm the reason you don't log onto NASGA.  

-Other people note that you were "flat-out RUDE" to Scott Farr for no reason.

-I ask a legitimate question of "is this a backyard game". 

-You attack me again for asking that legitimate question.  


Good, now that we're all caught up.  

Originally posted by TedL TedL wrote:

 Mr. Smith has made no attempt to contact me directly via phone, email, Nasga, or Facebook.

I have posted every question that I've had right here on the NASGA board for everyone to see.  Why the F would I try to contact you via another medium?

Originally posted by TedL TedL wrote:

1.     In the three years I have been putting on these games, I have made EVERY effort to ensure that the games are indeed NOT “back yard” games. As far as I knew, I had dotted every “I” and crossed every “t”.
2.     I have hired S.H.A.G to run the games. This year’s judges were Ed Bodenheimer, Robert Blackman and score keeper, Chad Clark. I did not judge, pull tape or in any other way participate in the outcome of the games.
3.     There actually were two vendors on-site, a food vendor that served beer, wine, water, soda and sandwiches from Boars Head meats and a clothing vendor. I hired yet a third vendor to cater the lunch for the athletes.
4.     The manager of the resort also provided a shuttle (all day) to shuttle any athlete, resort guest, family member of an athlete, or anyone from the public, out to the field from the main lobby.
5.     Yes, a piper was hired, Mr. Steve Agan out of Asheville. He did a tremendous job and even played Star Wars on the bag pipes which the spectators enjoyed and added to the festivities.
6.     Lastly, not that it is anyone’s business, but it seems to be an important fact to some, I spent $13, 596.40 on the Leger Invitational this year. Now, if I just wanted to put on a back yard games, I could have had everyone up to the farm, had them pitch tents, and feed them burgers and dogs for lunch and have a keg for after and saved myself about $13,000.
This is the link to the resort where the games were held this year: www.HighHamptoninn.com

This clears up a lot, and all you had to say was it's a legit game with vendors, etc...  Why can't you understand that is all that was being asked?

Originally posted by TedL TedL wrote:

 Just because a game is small does not make it a “backyard” game and therefore insignificant.

No ever said, or even insinuated that it did.  

Originally posted by TedL TedL wrote:

I don’t know of any Pro that walked onto his or her first game as a Pro, do you?

Yes, but it's irrelevant to the topic at hand, and doesn't strengthen anyone's position in this matter.  

Originally posted by TedL TedL wrote:

I believe the intention of the “back yard” games rules was to ensure that a group of Pros, Ams, or mix did not just get together at someone’s farm and judge and score each other to bump up their standing on Nasga or to enter a bogus World Record, not to discourage the continuation of more small games.

This is correct.  

Originally posted by TedL TedL wrote:

There are many games that have gone by the wayside in the last few years, at least in my area. People like me and others are trying to keep some games alive that have been around for twenty years and for one reason or other have lost their funding.

I actually applaud you for this.  

Originally posted by TedL TedL wrote:

I agree with minimum requirements, but if we get like the EPA , there will be no more smaller games. If you set a precedent of going after games once they are over, you will have to do it for all the previous games as well. And, you will have to set up a more rigid system on Nasga for A. D’s. entering games and there will most likely have to be a Nasga representative at every single game going forward. If ONE person can try to undermine the integrity of one game, then ANYONE can do the same to any other game, even the bigger games. Just because a game is big doesn’t ensure that the judging is fare or accurate. I’ve been involved in these games for twelve years and I can tell you that my games are legitimate games, follow the rules (as written, not interpreted for personal reasons) and the scores represent fair and accurate judging.

No one ever said otherwise.  

Originally posted by TedL TedL wrote:

I’ve been involved in these games for twelve years and I can tell you that my games are legitimate games, follow the rules (as written, not interpreted for personal reasons) and the scores represent fair and accurate judging.

I'm not sure why you felt the need to attack, as opposed to just typing this.  


I suspect, based on your posts in this thread, that you won't have the courtesy to respond and address my points as I have yours, so I guess we'll call it a day on this one.   

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WALLY.OLECIK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 9/02/14 at 12:07am
Originally posted by TedL TedL wrote:

Wally,
I am addressing this post to you as you seem to be a reasonable person.
Why, yes!  Yes, l am.  But l'm not sure why you chose me.  And what's that bright spot of light on my forehead? 

ln reading these posts, l do have to wonder how many pipers, dancers, and pipe bands were in attendance at the 'Arnold?'  Oh, l'm sure that there were vendors galore but l bet that there wasn't a kilt or sporron to be bought at any price!!  Does this mean that it was a 'back yard Games?'
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WALLY.OLECIK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 9/02/14 at 12:18am
Originally posted by C. Smith C. Smith wrote:

Are we talking in circles?
Sorry!  l'm not fluant in Circleze!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote C. Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 9/02/14 at 8:22am
Originally posted by WALLY.OLECIK WALLY.OLECIK wrote:

ln reading these posts, l do have to wonder how many pipers, dancers, and pipe bands were in attendance at the 'Arnold?'  Oh, l'm sure that there were vendors galore but l bet that there wasn't a kilt or sporron to be bought at any price!!  Does this mean that it was a 'back yard Games?'


I can only speak on 2013, since I was involved in the games there that year.  There were performances by bagpipers (I believe there were four bands) and drum teams, as well as dancers and the Arnold Scottish Highland Dance Competition.  So it most certainly did have all the festivities of a Highland Games (not to mention, $20k solely in prize money).   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WALLY.OLECIK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 9/02/14 at 6:59pm
Thanks, Craig.  That was not apparent from the descriptions in the posts here about the event!
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