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Scoring Spreadsheet

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McSanta View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote McSanta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Scoring Spreadsheet
    Posted: 9/26/06 at 10:36am

After experiencing life in the scorers' tent at my last games, I decided that I needed to move the Quad Cities games to electronic scoring and maybe should buy those in that tent some whiskey after the games.  I considered writing a scoring application in a variety of package or use the existing database application that has all the whistles and bells.

I went the spreadsheet route because the majority of the people who will be helping at the Quad Cities games has had some form of Excel experience and I did not think I needed the whistles and bells.

The spreadsheet I created can be downloaded at:
markjmcvey.googlepages.com/myadspreedsheets

The former AD at QC games passed on a simple piece of advice that was passed on to him when he took the job:  There are givers and takers in highland games, you don't want to be a taker. 

In that spirit, the spreadsheet is protected with out passwords to prevent miss guided data entry.  But the protection can be lifted with out a password allowing anybody to make modifications.  The VB code is also not hidden or password protected for the same reason.

I would recommend being very carefully adding rows or columns for they may goof up the Visual Basic Macros.

Use it and abuse this spreadsheet at your own risk for it is supplied as is. The author disclaims all warranties, expressed or implied, including, without limitation, the warranties of merchantability and of fitness for any purpose. The author assumes no liability for damages, direct or consequential, which may result from the use or installation of any spreed sheet downloaded from this site.

Don't you love legal language!!!!

McSanta

Mark McVey

"The work of science is to substitute facts for appearances and demonstrations for impressions." -John Ruskin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote COLEWINE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 9/27/06 at 12:51pm

This looks like it will perfect for the Maine Games next year. We always have a lot of people throwing so this will be a great way to keep track. Last summer it got a little CRAZY. Thank you for "giving" this to us. Take care and pull hard.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote McSanta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 9/28/06 at 7:48am

I did not use it this year at my games but realized I needed to go that route for my games.  However, to debug the spreadsheet, I used this years score sheets.  I believe it is now bug free. 

The only problem I know of is that the macro which clears the data range will work in excel 2000 but did not work in the prior version.  This has to do with the newer version gives the user a higher degree of flexibility when protecting a worksheet.  If one has an older version of Excel, than some code can be inserted that unprotects a sheet, clears it out, and re-protects it. 

 

Mark McVey

"The work of science is to substitute facts for appearances and demonstrations for impressions." -John Ruskin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/05/06 at 12:23pm
Very nice.. no excellent
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote McSanta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/06/06 at 3:34pm

Thanks for the compliment - I use Excel a lot (big calculator to me) and I have been known to put together a pretty wicked spreadsheet.

Being relatively new to the AD gig, I have always had problem with the Athlete of the day.  I could not see a good way to compare the various throwing classes to decide who won this award.  It seemed to me that it went to the A class by default.  But why not a Masters' Winner, Women's Winner, or 190's Winner.  It was frustrating wanting to be fair but not knowing how and being unable to justify the award.

So I wanted to dump the award and spend the difference on better prizes or maybe give a sportsman of the day award.  I however, did not have control of the prizes portion of the AD job and was told I had to give an athlete of the day award. 

I was saved from my dilemma by a thrower who told me it should be based on the highest decathlon points.  Makes sense but not easily done unless doing computer scoring. 

Thus, next version will have some fields to enter records so that decathlon scoring can be used along with the existing points scoring system.

Since It is almost the offseason, the time to start reviewing and fixing the problems, weakness, ...  one had with his/hers games are upon me.  And then there is those damn elves I need to look after! 

Since I wrestled the prize portion of the AD job back, I may not even need decathlon scoring because I may dump the athlete of the day prize and give a Sportsman & Sportswomen of the day prizes instead. 

 

Mark McVey

"The work of science is to substitute facts for appearances and demonstrations for impressions." -John Ruskin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote McSanta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/06/06 at 3:40pm

A feature that is built into the spreedsheet by design not purpose.  But it is a cool feature anyways --

On the totals page only enter a 1 in the ""Enter 1 to include
event in Total Score--->" when the event is completed and the results are entered.  

This will give you totals at that point in time which may help anouncers hype the games by saying "after 3 events the top 4 throwers are separated by 3 points  -- The overall winner is still up for grabs. "

 

 

 

Mark McVey

"The work of science is to substitute facts for appearances and demonstrations for impressions." -John Ruskin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/08/06 at 4:56am
I need to get that book DUMMIES for excel. I can get around it but to design a spreadsheet.. Nearly impossible.

excellent work and thanks for the use of these
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JMOORE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/14/06 at 6:21am

You know marc,

when it comes to athlete of the day,  the games people only know what you tell them.  at st louis we do a thing like that but we base it on overall attitude to the sport, how there are aaround other athetes and the crowd, and there performance.  It doesnt mean they scored the highest, but are the best person on the field. 

at st louis the judges are told this at the begining of the day and after lunch are then asked for there results.

but in the end its your field, and you call the shots.

 

luck with you always

Joe Moore

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David Schultz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/16/06 at 9:32pm
Yeah, I've heard of many games that base athlete of the day not on who scored the highest, but a combination of both high scores and sportsmanship. Someone who throws well, but also helps out his fellow athletes, explains things to the crowd, helps the judge, helps set up/tear down, and just generally has a good attitude. Personally I think that that's a really good way of determining the athlete of the day.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote McSanta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/17/06 at 8:23am

Thank you for your input on athlete of the day.  It provides me with a different take on this prize.  To me the term initially meant the best thrower of the day which is a more quantitative rather than qualitative value.  However, I can see the logic of looking at other things but I am not sure if I will (since those other things always screwed me in contests).

 

Never the less, a tool built into a scoring program that measures how good a thrower in one class is compared to another thrower in another class would be useful but could be riddled with biases.

 

In the Midwest, we are blessed with some awesome 190, Masters, and Women throwers who have the ability to out throw the “A” throwers as a percentage of the records in each of their classes thus making them a legitimate candidate for athlete of the day.  Therefore, a tool to measure and compare their abilities would be useful.  Some form of ranking similar to NASGA’s rankings in which a throwers distance is compared to his/her class’s world record should provide a relatively unbiased comparison. 

This tool would be useful whether one brings in qualitative factors into the decision process or not. Thus, the next version I put up of the scoring spreadsheet will have some form of coding to try doing this.  

 

Knowing me, it will be so weird or complicated that I may be the only one to use it!LOL

 

Mark

 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JMOORE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/17/06 at 3:14pm

here is the flaw in your thinking, you can win by shere numbers, but you have to look at the flight and the level of compition in it. 

for example a few years ago we had a 190 flight that had keven henderson in it,  and other 190's that didnt begin to reach the level that he is, and he won every event easyly,

But in the a's we had chad braden and a stiff compition in the a's.  now chad did win the flight but when the overall tally occured keven had a better score.  both won there flights but there was more compition in the a's than the 190's  what do you do?

 

 

joe moore

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David Schultz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/17/06 at 4:41pm
In decathalon scoring wouldn't it not matter how many events you actually won since your scores are being compared to the world record instead of the other people at the games?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote McSanta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/17/06 at 5:35pm

Joe,

I am assuming by looking back in the database, the year was 2002. 

To fully explain where I am heading, the points awarded for each event will be calculated by the following:

Event points = throwers distance divided by
                           the throwers division record distance times 1000

sum the points up over all events scored.

If I compared Chad's throws to today's amateur records he would have scored across 6 events (excluding caber) 4504 points.  Take this total score and divide it by the 6 events scored and you get 751 -- which can be interpreted that on average over the 6 events, Chad threw 75.1% of the current records for the division he was throwing in.

Doing the same for Kevin but comparing it to the lightweight records, Kevin would have scored 4122 points. Taking this total score and divide it by the 6, one gets 687 -- Again this can be interpreted that Kevin threw on average over the 6 events, 68.7% of the records in his division. 

Doing the same exercise with Kevin's score but comparing them to the Masters U200 40-49 records, Kevin would have scored 4681 or an average of 78.0% of those records across the 6 events.

So if the event had happen today, Chad would have been awarded the athlete of the day over Kevin using just points. 

However, if one assumed Kevin threw in a fictitious Masters U200 class, he would have won the athlete of the day based on just points. 

Your point is well taken that other factors should be considered such as the fact that Chad had to gut it out to win against great competition.  

I am looking for a tool to rank the winners of the top divisions. When they are ranked, then for me I would need a reason to present the award to someone other than top ranked.  This is were other factors come into play. 

As I said, I feel uncomfortable with the athlete of the day award.  I do appreciate advice and insight on how others deal with this award and other issues.

Mark McVey

"The work of science is to substitute facts for appearances and demonstrations for impressions." -John Ruskin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David Schultz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/17/06 at 7:29pm

Wouldn't it be easier to simply compare each of their throws to just the overall world record in that event, instead of the world record in that event in their class? I would think that just doing that would uncomplicate things a great deal.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote McSanta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/18/06 at 5:03am

From my point of view, the reason I would compare against the records in the given throwing division (Amateur, Women, 190, various masters groups, ....) is the resulting measure would indicate how that thrower performed against his peers.  apples to apples  

If the current overall records are used, one would need to assume that the women or a given masters group will perform equally (approximately the same distance) throwing their weights as amateur men are at throwing their heavier weights.  Empirical evidence indicates this is not true. Thus we are comparing apples to oranges.

Open stone world record for men = 63' 1"
Open stone world record for men 50-55 = 47' 6"
Open stone world record for women = 55' 9.5"

Assume the winners in Women's, men's, and master's division all threw the open stone 32'.  Using one standard fits all method, they all get equal contribution to total points indicating they all threw equally well in this event.  But is that true?

If one used the record for each class, the Master's winner threw 67.4% of his record, women threw 57.4% of her record, and the amateur male threw 52.4% of his record.   I belief the masters thrower out performed the other winners and his contribution to total points would reflect this. 

I am spending way to much over thinking athlete of the day when I am not even sure whether I will be doing the award. However, I am trying to make a usable tool in the form of a scoring spreadsheet and different ideas will only help in that endeavor.

Mark



Edited by McSanta
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JMOORE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/18/06 at 6:27am

your making the system so complicated that only an accountant could understand it.

soryy, and i ment that in a good way

 

joe

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lori Henderson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/18/06 at 6:36am

Hey Mark,

I take it you are handing out not only the overall winners in each of your classes but also concocting a system to award an overall athlete with everyone combined?  You are just going one step farther then the rest of the games usually do, I think; you write so much I can't understand it all sometimes! 

Anyway, you might want to get with Bill Scruggs who runs the Masters World, he lives in Colorado.  He has created an excel program he uses when he awards the overall prizes for the 3 events he likes to keep track of: stones, hammer and distance events.  He somehow figures them all out based upon age, weight, skill, etc and it never matters who you are, you are rated against some kind of formula.  He may have the data you need and won't have to recreate it.

I think in KC we are going to just stick with what we have been doing and that is just overall for each class based upon your numbers for that day.  It is nice what St. Louis does but also very subjective; one person's opinion may be different then others and without numbers to justify it it then becomes opinions.

Lori

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote McSanta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/18/06 at 7:58am
Originally posted by JMOORE JMOORE wrote:

your making the system so complicated that only an accountant could understand it.

soryy, and i ment that in a good way

joe

Then I have toned it down!

Mark McVey

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote McSanta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/18/06 at 6:03pm

who me get long winded?

I put up version 2.0 of my scoring spreadsheet.  I included a way of ranking the throwers in a flight based on a set of records the user put in.  Whether the records are field records, class records, or pro records.

The formulas I used to rank is the same used by NASGA's rating but I take the formula over all events but caber.  A second version modifies this slightly. The other difference is NASGA compares all throws against the pros records whereas I allow the user to put in what every they want as a record (or ignore it completely).

I will use the winners score and compare it to the winners in other classes and use this in part to decide who wins athlete of the day (if I give that award out in the future). 

I do not think it is complicated, I think the way I explained it is complicated ~ I suffer from a common deficiency that many math geeks have, communication! LOL but I would not trade my geekness for the ability to communicate like a used car salesman!



Edited by McSanta
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JMOORE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/19/06 at 2:30am

yes but your only measuring the hard numbers, theres more to it than numarical calculation.  for example.

hoe do you give a numaric value to the way i interact with the athletes, just ask around having me on the field changes some of the dynamic.  for the good i think???

or how i work the people on the other side of the fence, making the audence part of whats going on. 

and iam not sugesting that you do this at your games,  hell we have one of you here in st louis, GOD love Jim Detters, Caber maker to great and powerful,

its just something to think about and keep in mind.

 

Joe Moore

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/29/06 at 5:32am
keep this at the top... maybe put a sticky on it
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