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brandell View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brandell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 4/06/12 at 1:31am
Originally posted by McSanta McSanta wrote:

I wish my fingers would stop behave and type what my brain is thinking -- my post echo's (not egos) Mark Howes post.

Preach on Santa!!!Clap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vonguinness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 4/06/12 at 1:52am
Originally posted by McSanta McSanta wrote:

Originally posted by vonguinness vonguinness wrote:

this logic is hard to disagree with.

Leave it to me to disagree.

Making the argument that we should NOT use the 200lb weight limits as perscribed by a relatively new sport to guide the weight limits of an ancient sport is flawed as the Lightweight division is also relatively new aspect of this ancient sport.  Never the less, there is a strong argument that can be made to ignore other strength sports weight-limits (a long version of Mark Howe's post!?).

1. Heavy Athletics is a throwing sport with tests of strength. 
This egos what Mark Howe stated.  The premise of the argument of raising the lightweight division to 200lbs is that Heavy Athletics is a strength-sport.  But it is not, it is a throwing sport with tests of strength.  Out of heavy athletic traditions, came the hammer throw, the weight throw, and the shot put.  Do those in other "strength" sports considered those track and field throws a strength sport?

It is also a misnomer that the term "Heavy" refers to the implements or size of people throwing them (as I posted before), "Heavy" is a term that appeared before 1900 and is used to refer the strenuous nature of a sport.   It also distinguished between the running, jumping, and dancing contests that were once part of Highland Games and termed as "light" athletics (I cannot find the source on Light Athletics so I am not sure of the historical accuracy).

2. Nature of Heavy Athletics
The heavy implements (of the events that have heavy and light implements) can be thrown well with brute strength but the lighter implements requires a great deal of technique (speed and form) to generate a good throw.  A good example of this, which I have seen often, is in the hammer contest.  Strongman/powerlifter background throwers can hold their own in the heavy hammer against technical throwers but get toasted in the light hammer until they develop technique, just as  T&F Guys need to get stronger for events like standing WOB.

The draw to this sport is the unque combination of strength and skill and each individuals blending of those two.  Stronger contestants work on technique and technical contestants work on strength to get the right blend to be the champion of the day.   This I assume is a much different nature than other strength sports.

3. Heavy Athletics is NOT a lesser sport to "other" strength sport
I do see the logic to raise the limit in drawing a few more people into the lightweight division.  However, to change the limit based on this draw seems, to me, a weak argument.  If I ignored this "benefit", I feel there is a condescending element in the argument, in that Heavy Athletics is a lesser sport than other strength sport and should bow to their limits.  

Like track and field throwing, the rich history of Heavy Athletics also spawned strongman contests and other strength sports:  These sports have adopting and evolving some of Heavy Athletics tests of strength while adding their own.  Thus, the condescending element that  Heavy Athletics  should change to suit other strength sports weight classes.

I will admit that this view maybe as arogant as the other view is condescending, but I came to this sport from the cultural and heritage side, which drives this view. 

4. Heritage and tradition is embedded in this sport.  Although there is little celtic heritage in the 190 class, there is many years of tradition.  The line was drawn and there is no reason to change from a competitive prospective.   

Increasing the head count in a division is a weak argument and a very slippery slope: If 200lb, than why not 210lbs or the next breakpoint in another sport?  Why not bantam and super heavy weights as the other thread's joked about?

Just because it is not expressly forbidden, does not make it proper or acceptable to do in heavy athletics maybe a hard concept to grasp for an individual coming from track and field where everything is regulated or from powerlifting where bench shirts and all the other weird shit is worn to maximize results,   Although all are welcome in Heavy Athletics, drawing people from other strength sports has risks.  Without a historical and hertiage view point,  disagreements occur as the interpertation of rules because of the heritage and traditions embedded in this sport.   (there is a reason why we were kilts)
 
 

I read about the first 3 lines of this.
You use a lot of words.
I'd just like to say that Howe is a complete stud and awesome dude, I respect his thoughts a bunch.

jammin on the one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote McSanta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 4/06/12 at 3:01am
Originally posted by vonguinness vonguinness wrote:

 I read about the first 3 lines of this. You use a lot of words.
 
LOLEmbarrassed
Mark McVey

"The work of science is to substitute facts for appearances and demonstrations for impressions." -John Ruskin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thegnome Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 4/06/12 at 4:28am
Again I say do what you want and lt others do the same but I would like to comment about the condescnding remark and simply say.......what?????
 
And as for incrasing head counts that's cool but I can tell you that right now in New York/New England there is a community off strength sports enthusiasts that is growing seriously close.  Since people have started crossing over from one sport to the next I have made friends and had experiences I wouldn't trade for anything.  In a few weeks I'm driving to Pgh for a strongman contest picking up some guys on the way, two weeks later we'll all be at a Highland games, and two weeks after that the same guys will be doing doing a Highlander at a community fstival.  There's even talk of a "Supertotal" meet at somepoint that would bring in those pesky OL guys and maybe even some of those dreaded crossfitters.  If that's the result of encouraging cross sport participation....I'll take it.
Andrew G

Vada a bordo CAZZO!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vonguinness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 4/06/12 at 4:40am
Quote There's even talk of a "Supertotal" meet at somepoint that would bring in those pesky OL guys and maybe even some of those dreaded crossfitters.  If that's the result of encouraging cross sport participation....I'll take it.

get out of my head!
jammin on the one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thegnome Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 4/06/12 at 4:51am
Dude, I'm a pro...it's my job...
Andrew G

Vada a bordo CAZZO!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vonguinness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 4/06/12 at 5:41am
Originally posted by thegnome thegnome wrote:

Dude, I'm a pro...it's my job...

spoken like a true professional.

back on topic, 200#.
Even though this 100% benefits me, I'm training my arse off to get to the point where I cant make 200 anymore, and start throwing more legit AM numbers as opposed to comparing meself to the LW things.
Bigger and Stronger....errr Faster is always the goal.
jammin on the one.
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