MWC 2014 W40-49 is now split
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Topic: MWC 2014 W40-49 is now split
Posted By: K Rogers
Subject: MWC 2014 W40-49 is now split
Date Posted: 7/31/13 at 12:42pm
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Hey http://www.scottishmasters.org/index.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.scottishmasters.org/index.html "We are pleased to announce that it has been decided that a New World Championship will be contested in Inverness splitting the traditional Women 40-49 age group into W40-44 (who will throw the 28lb) and the W45-49 (who will throw the 21lb). Thereby preserving the Scottish Masters Records for women's throws with the 28lb (2 Stone) weight for distance and height events while also accommodating the recent athlete inquires for the women's weights. Simply, we'll now start the use of the lighter weight at 45 years of age for the women. To do this we must now split the MWC2014 Early Registration List of W40-49 into 2 groups and we'll ask all the listed athletes to contact me at mailto:kevin.rogers@scottishmasters.org" rel="nofollow - kevin.rogers@scottishmasters.org regarding the change in age groups and with questions about the weights designed for use." -K ------------- http://www.scottishmasters.org/Records" rel="nofollow - Scottish Masters Records |
Replies:
Posted By: bigirish01
Date Posted: 7/31/13 at 12:52pm
So then Men 45 + will throw the 35# Now ? ------------- Jay "Big Daddy" O'Neill |
Posted By: Flame of Idaho
Date Posted: 7/31/13 at 1:06pm
| That sounds like a fair enough compromise given the arguments of the other thread. By creating a new class, you would have new records to keep anyway allowing the 21# change, while still preserving the integrity 28# 40+ records you were concerned about. Good move, and I give you the utmost respect for spearheading such a monstrously huge event. |
Posted By: Flame of Idaho
Date Posted: 7/31/13 at 1:09pm
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bigirish01 wrote:Posted By: bigirish01
Date Posted: 7/31/13 at 1:21pm
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I personally think its a mistake to change the weight.... Thats my opinion.
I reflect on 63 year old Ken Beck, when givin the option to throw the 96 pound Portland stone, or the lighter one.... He took a vote of all the 60+ men... they all voted and threw the 96# ...same weight that the Pro's and all other Amateur Men threw!
You win the battle.... lower weight....
You lose the War.... Credibility..... ------------- Jay "Big Daddy" O'Neill |
Posted By: K Rogers
Date Posted: 7/31/13 at 1:25pm
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Jay-
Show a little faith .. we'll compromise at 45years .. and hopefully move on.
There's bigger fish to fry. -K ------------- http://www.scottishmasters.org/Records" rel="nofollow - Scottish Masters Records |
Posted By: Juli Peterson
Date Posted: 7/31/13 at 1:25pm
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I'll be 47 at the time of this event. Respectfully, may I opt to throw with the younger group and earn a shot at that record? juli peterson ------------- You have to stop doing that Juli, if it worked we'd all be doing it. tosabarbell.com |
Posted By: K Rogers
Date Posted: 7/31/13 at 1:37pm
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Juli-
Aaaaahhh, ... mmm ... aaahhh ... yes. Not sure why not.
See .. this is how the whole can of worms felt.
-K ------------- http://www.scottishmasters.org/Records" rel="nofollow - Scottish Masters Records |
Posted By: Juli Peterson
Date Posted: 7/31/13 at 1:43pm
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I feel for ya! I know this decision has made a lot of women happy and I'm happy for them and for you on getting this off your desk on onto bigger things. I'm also happy that I can go ahead and throw the big dog around. Win/win. I appreciate it, very much. Thank you. Look forward to hopefully meeting you at Jason's Throwing for The Cure event in a few weeks. Thank you again! jp ------------- You have to stop doing that Juli, if it worked we'd all be doing it. tosabarbell.com |
Posted By: The Queen
Date Posted: 7/31/13 at 1:44pm
Key word there Jay, he took a vote of all of those involved. Kudos to the SMAI for listening to the Lady Masters and making a compromise.  I consider it a step in the right direction!
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Posted By: Borges
Date Posted: 7/31/13 at 1:45pm
Besides, I still maintain that the proper way to run masters classes (for both men and women) is to use the same weights but simply drop events. I despise the 42#. If you don't want to throw the HWFD then just drop the event, don't change it. I still remember Bill Butler (may he rest in peace) trying to interest the masters men in a 19# heavy hammer. Thank God that idea never caught on. Just because we made one stupid mistake (the 42#) doesn't mean we should repeat the folly. ------------- Cheers, Carlos "Live free or die" |
Posted By: The Queen
Date Posted: 7/31/13 at 1:47pm
| Juli - you have a shot at that record any time you throw the 28lb. in competition. It does not have to be thrown at the MWC in order to count as a Masters Record. |
Posted By: Juli Peterson
Date Posted: 7/31/13 at 1:50pm
Good to know! Thank you  jp ------------- You have to stop doing that Juli, if it worked we'd all be doing it. tosabarbell.com |
Posted By: bigirish01
Date Posted: 7/31/13 at 2:06pm
My point is that when it came down to it... They wanted to be respected amongst their athlete peers.... ------------- Jay "Big Daddy" O'Neill |
Posted By: C. Smith
Date Posted: 7/31/13 at 2:40pm
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Kevin is far too nice, and I told him that. I would have never made this change and told everyone to FFFFF off. Good thing I'm not in charge, I guess. ------------- |
Posted By: Shawn Baker
Date Posted: 7/31/13 at 2:51pm
| "somewhat" heavy athletics |
Posted By: K Rogers
Date Posted: 7/31/13 at 2:59pm
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Craig- It may turn out that I'm the wrong man for the job .. but its too late for me to turn back now.
I've got to finish this one .. but I will start looking for a replacement in earnest now. I've retired from better paying gigs.
-K ------------- http://www.scottishmasters.org/Records" rel="nofollow - Scottish Masters Records |
Posted By: C. Smith
Date Posted: 7/31/13 at 3:16pm
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Better you than I my friend, believe that. I'm sure the women throwing the 1.5 stone weight (sigh) will shower you with love a result. So you've got that going for you... Which is nice. ------------- |
Posted By: rogerws76
Date Posted: 7/31/13 at 4:28pm
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Kevin, Great leaders will ALWAYS make decisions that not everyone will agree with. No one could do what you have done in the last several years without great leadership abilities. You will have many more of these decisions to make. When you look at the success of the MWC, NO ONE can doubt your ability. Thank you for your service and march on. Look at the growth of these games and be very proud of your work! ------------- Roger |
Posted By: candysprinkles
Date Posted: 7/31/13 at 4:35pm
Yep the men all VOTED to throw the heavier Portland stone. The majority won. The Master women informally voted last year, with the majority wanting to go with the change to 21# (per Karyn's poll - thanks Karyn!) Jay, as a 49 year old Master (for 2013), you'd like to go back to throwing the 56 then? Take a vote of your class - I'd be interested in what the results would be. |
Posted By: candysprinkles
Date Posted: 7/31/13 at 4:37pm
Kevin, thank for and the SMAI and MWC committees for considering and making this change. I, and many other Master Women competitors appreciate it. See you at MWC 2014! |
Posted By: bigirish01
Date Posted: 7/31/13 at 5:04pm
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QUOTE CANDY SPRINKLES AKA Stephanie
"Yep the men all VOTED to throw the heavier Portland stone. The majority won. The Master women informally voted last year, with the majority wanting to go with the change to 21# (per Karyn's poll - thanks Karyn!)
Jay, as a 49 year old Master (for 2013), you'd like to go back to throwing the 56 then? Take a vote of your class - I'd be interested in what the results would be. " yes they voted to use the proper stone when given a choice because they wanted to throw the same weight as their peers.... Thats the point.... if they had followed the Lead of the women... they would have voted to use a smaller stone because its easier.
I'm a poor example for you to use Steph... I have had the option of throwing Master (42)8 years ago and threw as a B and A until last year. I threw 56 last Saturday at Enumclaw. Im not gonna lobby to throw lower a weight beacuse I dont wanna throw it.... Its called the Heavy Events for a reason.
Whats next? Smaller lighter cabers so everyone can turn them? When I competed in Strongman you lifted what they had and Highland games should be no differant. ------------- Jay "Big Daddy" O'Neill |
Posted By: candysprinkles
Date Posted: 7/31/13 at 5:11pm
| Jay, my question was how your entire Master Men 40-49 class would vote if given the option of throwing the 56 v 42. I know you personally throw the 56 still. And there is no need to AKA me - my full name is in my profile. |
Posted By: candysprinkles
Date Posted: 7/31/13 at 5:17pm
| So if the standard in the Highland Games is "lift what they have", why the change to 42 for Master Men 40+? Why a 14# weight for women as LWD at all? Why a 12# LH for women? Changes were made along the way at some time. We are at the time for another change now. If an athlete prefers to throw the "traditional" weights even though Masters age they can throw in an Open (or A or B) class like Jay and other Masters age athletes have. |
Posted By: bigirish01
Date Posted: 7/31/13 at 5:48pm
No your question was..."Jay, as a 49 year old Master (for 2013), you'd like to go back to throwing the 56 then?" My answer is I throw what's placed in front of me... and if I went to Scotland and they said The weight will be 56 I will throw the 56 without question or argument. As for taking a poll of my fellow competitors... Im not sure what they would say. But I do know this... I would never assume that everyone I throw with would opt to throw the lesser weight. ------------- Jay "Big Daddy" O'Neill |
Posted By: bigirish01
Date Posted: 7/31/13 at 5:53pm
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Our sport is a strength sport... so you adapt to the sport, you shouldn't expect the sport to make concessions for your weakness ------------- Jay "Big Daddy" O'Neill |
Posted By: candysprinkles
Date Posted: 7/31/13 at 6:35pm
My point is, at some time there were concessions made in the HG. Masters Men throwing the 42 instead of 56. Women using 14 for their LWD (1/2 stone weight.) Women using a 12# hammer for LH. Women throwing at all! LW Mens classes. And even age classes (Masters.) At one time, all of these changes were concessions. Concessions that were presumably made for, as you put it, some athletes' "weakness." Many strength sports have made changes to their rules and traditions over the years. This change is no different from any other change to HG "traditions" that were made in the past, except that it is happening now. Did we cross some "no more changes can be made ever" bar in 2012 that I was not aware of? Maybe the Mayan calendar ending signified that time should stand still. |
Posted By: 17/20
Date Posted: 7/31/13 at 6:48pm
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There was a move at Captial District, Altamont, NY some years ago to go with the 35 hwfd for the older masters. Not sure think it was denied. Anyone recall? So be advised this ain't over yet. Just a heads up Kevin, take the phone off the. Gonna be hard to say no to the 35 at this point after this decision. ------------- I MAY BE BIG , BUT I'M FAST |
Posted By: bigirish01
Date Posted: 7/31/13 at 6:52pm
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Keep posting...... you're making my argument stronger 14# is 1 stone...not 1/2 yes there are classes.... why they are here I don't know. But there is only 1 class asking for a lower weight. ------------- Jay "Big Daddy" O'Neill |
Posted By: Jeff Ingram
Date Posted: 7/31/13 at 6:56pm
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I dunno. When I compete (less and less often) I just throw what they put in front of me. If it's the 42, great it's a fun weight to throw. it's not like it's the 14lb weight for height. if it's the 56 great, it's always been my favorite event along with the caber. If I sign up for a Games I throw what they've got. 16-90+lb stones, 80-160lb cabers... it's a pretty mixed bag. I like that. But that's just me. As an AD, in the future when I'm confronted with issues like this, I believe my motto will be WWMVD and I will consult Youtube for advice. |
Posted By: candysprinkles
Date Posted: 7/31/13 at 7:07pm
| Masters Women asked for a lighter weight than Open Women (21 v 28.) Just like Masters Men throw a lighter weight than Open/A/B Men (42 v 56.) |
Posted By: KiltedGolfChick
Date Posted: 7/31/13 at 7:16pm
It's a start! I'm very happy for the change. 
Now, to start training and saving... ------------- ~Gretchen |
Posted By: Wayne Pogany
Date Posted: 7/31/13 at 7:31pm
| Don is right on about the 35.....keep in mind that 20+ years ago "masters" was 50+.... then about 15 years ago it was dropped to 45...and a couple years later 40...here in New England we never had enough of us old farts to do the age group thing, so my efforts to keep it at 50+ brought me enough flack that it pretty much ended my interest in AD'ing..... I was asked a couple times to make a 35# to try some demos to foster some interest.....but my heart wasn't in it.....but back in the day, everybody under 50 threw the 56...... |
Posted By: thegnome
Date Posted: 7/31/13 at 7:34pm
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I don't care what I throw, just let me know so I can get Landrich to make me one. ------------- Andrew G Vada a bordo CAZZO!!!! |
Posted By: 17/20
Date Posted: 7/31/13 at 7:52pm
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Wayne, long time brother hope your well. May see you in Ct this fall. Thanks for the clarification . ------------- I MAY BE BIG , BUT I'M FAST |
Posted By: Juli Peterson
Date Posted: 7/31/13 at 8:09pm
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Jay: But there are only some members from 1 class asking for a lower weight. Fixed for you  (BTW-it was a pleasure briefly meeting you and your wife this past weekend. Sorry we missed your big party, volunteering took more out of me than I'd imagined. But I was still ready to throw the 28 the next day..;) jp ------------- You have to stop doing that Juli, if it worked we'd all be doing it. tosabarbell.com |
Posted By: Sammy68123
Date Posted: 7/31/13 at 9:16pm
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I apologize for being late to the announcement, but I've had to work away from my computer all day without resources to comment. I appreciate SMAI/MWC offering an accommodation. However, to be a bit of a wet blanket, the "compromise" from MWC is something, but no cigar yet. They threw us women a bone of separating the age groups in the 40-49 category, but still kept different weights for the two sections . . . 1) Yes, we have stupendous numbers of women for 2014 to allow for a split, but how about future years? What happens if only 2 enter the 45-49 class next year or future years? Will MWC keep them as a separate class throwing the 21#? It creates more problems than it solves. 2) It still maintains the double standard of weights for master's women throwers that doesn't exist for the men. 3) The dual-weight standard still represents a disconnect between MWC and the continually increasing number of master's women's competitions that are using the 21# at age 40, NOT 45 or 50. The double standard of the weights has always been the issue among the women in favor of adopting the 21# weight for all age groups. The argument of "it's always been that way" is pretty weak justification: try telling the cop who pulls you over "I've always driven 50 in this 35 zone"--won't fly. ------------- Teresa Merrick Bellevue, NE |
Posted By: dWood
Date Posted: 7/31/13 at 10:29pm
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Hey Wayne P,how is everything? Quick question and just playing devils advocate if enough older master men complain about the 42 would you switch to the 35 ?? Before any woman slam me let me state that my wife threw as well as my 2 daughters and I tried to encourage woman in New England to compete/ throw when I was ADing- so Im all for woman sharing the field but it is the heavy events..we should keep it the way it has been and some people will say sports evolve/grow just don't think this is the right way. Just my humble .02 and yes it's a males view but ask Denise H,Lacy J,Jenna F,Kate G and they will tell you besides guys like Wayne Pogany,Wayne Hill,Bill Schmitt,Dana Florence,Eric Suave,and Leroy Mcdonl there weren't too many men pushing the games comitte to have the woman showcased like they should have with the top men ------------- JUST BRING IT / SPEED KILLS..BUT STRENGTH PUNISHES |
Posted By: Soul Eater
Date Posted: 7/31/13 at 10:49pm
| Kevin, can a 47yr old throw in the 40-44 class at the MWC? Is the 5 game rule hard and fast or is that just an arbitrary number that someone picked and is not adhered to. |
Posted By: candysprinkles
Date Posted: 8/01/13 at 12:14am
You're right. Sorry about that - I used to know my stone weight conversions quite well back in the UK. |
Posted By: candysprinkles
Date Posted: 8/01/13 at 12:16am
Juli, I was sorry you weren't able to come to my and Bret's house for the Clawbeque as well. Maybe next year! |
Posted By: Soul Eater
Date Posted: 8/01/13 at 3:43am
| Carlos, women's hammers ring a bell, about 10 -12 yrs ago. Would you care to enlighten everyone on that. My memory is fading but I think it had to do with changing the weight of the hammer heads > and the length of the handles from 50" to 48". |
Posted By: Juli Peterson
Date Posted: 8/01/13 at 5:59am
Thank you! I heard it was a ton of fun. If I'm fortunate enough to be invited back, I'll have to relook at volunteering all day prior to throwing and hopefully find another way to contribute. Then I'll have the energy for fun! jp ------------- You have to stop doing that Juli, if it worked we'd all be doing it. tosabarbell.com |
Posted By: K Rogers
Date Posted: 8/01/13 at 6:16am
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Kel- The 5 game rule is still in place and I can say with pretty good confidence that I can recognize the region and the competition level of most people when they list their 5 games. The European Championships and the few other locals that I've not personally experienced have been a learning experience .. but just imagine .. List your 5 games as if you were making an application. .. then sit back and look at that list. I would recognize each and every one of them and you would start with Pleasanton. I was skeptical at first but with some experience you can know an athletes circle of influence in their choice of the games they list. Is it a fool proof system of demonstrable qualification for Worlds .. no. -K ------------- http://www.scottishmasters.org/Records" rel="nofollow - Scottish Masters Records |
Posted By: K Rogers
Date Posted: 8/01/13 at 6:29am
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Kel- And I don't want to confuse the age qualifications for age groups any further. There are age group limits. I've been reluctant to do the photo ID check at registration like weightlifting meets because I trust people to sign up for the correct age group at our MWCs. If they can't do that by themselves, then I'm at a loss. Everyone is a mature adult in this meet and we have to expect some issues but the age group shouldn't be one of them. Its not been the difficult part so far. -K ------------- http://www.scottishmasters.org/Records" rel="nofollow - Scottish Masters Records |
Posted By: bigirish01
Date Posted: 8/01/13 at 8:34am
------------- Jay "Big Daddy" O'Neill |
Posted By: bigirish01
Date Posted: 8/01/13 at 8:36am
------------- Jay "Big Daddy" O'Neill |
Posted By: K Rogers
Date Posted: 8/01/13 at 9:57am
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C'mon Jay-
Let's move on .. nobody was bullied .. we agreed to a change.
I'm still not convinced that there's anything we've done in the MWC that is unfair to women, including the decision in 2003 to go with the 28lb weight for the contest. It was my decision that day as AD and I don't back down from it. We were hosting the first women's group at MWC Springfield and I went with what was my best idea -the 28lb. Records were set with it .. apparently that's more important to me than to others but I can live with it. We can change if we have to, I guess.
I listened to the comments and we found a reasonable compromise. Please don't call it being bullied. That just keeps making it feel like a fight .. and its already caused enough of the dissolution of comradery.
-K ------------- http://www.scottishmasters.org/Records" rel="nofollow - Scottish Masters Records |
Posted By: bigirish01
Date Posted: 8/01/13 at 11:12am
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Ok Kevin... with respect to you, I wont say the MWC was bullied.... But that was one fast turn around. Im Done with this as well. ------------- Jay "Big Daddy" O'Neill |
Posted By: bigirish01
Date Posted: 8/01/13 at 2:31pm
Good thing you pointed out that the BBQ was at your house.... ------------- Jay "Big Daddy" O'Neill |
Posted By: candysprinkles
Date Posted: 8/01/13 at 2:46pm
| I like clarity Jay. And I'm a big fan of equality. Obviously. |
Posted By: rogerws76
Date Posted: 8/01/13 at 3:30pm
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I can see the ghost of Dinnie now ... hauntingly taunting Candy Sprinkles: "I canna help but ask ... have ye misplaced yer whiteboard again, lassie?" :) Ha! Give 'em hell, Candy!!!  ------------- Roger |
Posted By: candysprinkles
Date Posted: 8/01/13 at 3:43pm
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I'll stomp ol' Dinnie with my boots Roger, LOL!
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Posted By: Juli Peterson
Date Posted: 8/01/13 at 3:53pm
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Juli, I was sorry you weren't able to come to my and Bret's house for the Clawbeque as well. Maybe next year![/QUOTE] Good thing you pointed out that the BBQ was at your house.... [/QUOTE]
Angie had mentioned where it was, I just didn't make the sprinkle connection . I'd be thrilled to make it next year.As we've all set this aside and moved on, and since Roger is kind enough to allow me to throw with the young whipper snappers and the heavier weights, I have one thought to leave this with. I don't mean any disrespect, believe me. For the women who want a lighter HWD because you are now older. Were you throwing the 28# over 30' or so when you were younger and have now found that your age prevents you from doing this which makes a 21# more realistic? Or has it always been too heavy to throw? If it's been too heavy all along, respectfully speaking, in a Heavy Athletics sport...well, hmmmm. The only thing that still sits in my brain is, is this an age issue or a strength issue? Again, no disrespect. People have seemed to achieve a happy compromise and I don't wish to muddy Kevin's desk any further. It's just a nagging thought on my part. Moving on... ------------- You have to stop doing that Juli, if it worked we'd all be doing it. tosabarbell.com |
Posted By: candysprinkles
Date Posted: 8/01/13 at 5:54pm
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I supported the change to a 21# for Master Women mostly because that is what the majority of the games in the PNW (with the exception of Enumclaw) have been using for the 2012 and 2013 seasons. I think we even used it a couple games in 2011. Several more seasoned athletes (meaning they have been throwing far longer than me) started championing the 21 a few years ago and it has been readily adopted by the majority of the ADs at PNW games. I like to throw what I usually compete and train with. Did I ever personally throw the 28# over or even near to 30'? In my dreams! I don't come from a strength sport or throwing background. I came into HG because my husband started throwing and I saw how much fun he was having with the other throwers. I was also encouraged to try it out from the women throwers that I had gotten to know (much much fewer than now, even though it's only been a couple years.) It has been a blast, even though I am in the bottom half of the field. I don't think that you need to be a top thrower to part of this sport. And hey, if one person looks at me throwing and having fun and says to themselves "Heck, if Candy Sprinkles can throw that heavy shit, I probably could too!" and joins our merry band of misfits, that helps our sport grow and that is a win in my book. So, to me there is much more to being a thrower than being "the best." I am trying to be "my best." I am working on getting stronger, since this is a strength sport, and I always enjoy bettering my own numbers. I will never be a huge numbers thrower, my body type and age are working against me in that. I just try to get better each games, each season. And that has been working well for me. Now, on to another possibly controversial subject for MWC 2014. SHEAF! I appeal to the powers that be to add it to the competition - I really want to bring my special "Candy" fork to Scotland!(Kevin Rogers, I am totally kidding, unless maybe there is a glimmer of hope?) 
|
Posted By: wsciscoe
Date Posted: 8/01/13 at 7:47pm
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Throwers should throw in their class period if they can choose what age class they want to throw in what is the purpose of having divided age classes? The entire thing has become confusing. Throw where you are told and what you are told. This should be black and white and easy to follow Kevin says A B C we do A B C nobody doing whatever they please, do what you are told to do. Whatever happened to respecting your AD?
------------- Old enough to know better. Still too young to care. |
Posted By: Juli Peterson
Date Posted: 8/01/13 at 8:07pm
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Is that at me Glenn? Have I been disrespectful? I simply asked if it were possible and was told yes. If Kevin believes that I've disrespectful to him I expect to hear about it, because we're adults here. I don't know that anyone is doing what they please. Many women are throwing the weights they've requested to throw, certainly I'm no different. Unless I'm missing a key ingredient here. Could be, I've missed things before. But if you're coming at me, well then, that's certainly a disappointment. jp ------------- You have to stop doing that Juli, if it worked we'd all be doing it. tosabarbell.com |
Posted By: wsciscoe
Date Posted: 8/01/13 at 8:29pm
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Kevin has enough problems organizing this event Without people wanting to jump from class to class That just adds more confusion. whichever woman throws the 21 pound heavy weight for distance the farthest will have the record. So in this situation no one needs to jump class to set a record just beat the people in your class. Just my 2 cents kevin has the final say and I respect him ------------- Old enough to know better. Still too young to care. |
Posted By: Juli Peterson
Date Posted: 8/01/13 at 8:34pm
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Ok, that said, plus Anita's comments on the FB and I am just so hurt and shocked that you two are coming at me like this. I'm strong enough to throw the 28 and would like a chance to do so on the world stage. That's all. I'm so sorry that it has affected you both so horribly as to ruin a field friendship that I was pleased with. Best of luck to you both. jp ------------- You have to stop doing that Juli, if it worked we'd all be doing it. tosabarbell.com |
Posted By: Sammy68123
Date Posted: 8/01/13 at 9:23pm
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[QUOTE=Juli Peterson] For the women who want a lighter HWD because you are now older. Were you throwing the 28# over 30' or so when you were younger and have now found that your age prevents you from doing this which makes a 21# more realistic? Or has it always been too heavy to throw? If it's been too heavy all along, respectfully speaking, in a Heavy Athletics sport...well, hmmmm. The only thing that still sits in my brain is, is this an age issue or a strength issue? [QUOTE] Hi Julie, I started HG in 2007 just before turning 50 and have thrown as B class with 28#. My best ever in 7 seasons with a 28# has been 24'. As a fitness trainer, I'm always about getting strong and stronger (I've competed in PL at national and international levels). I'm not really worried about rankings or similar. But at a games with open competition (no A/B split) where some superb younger women (half your age) who used to be top-level collegiate throwers leave you in last place in every event, sometimes you yearn to compete only with your age peers, even if they outthrow you by a whole bunch too. So I guess to answer your question, it's a bit of both. I haven't shied away from the 28#, but I can be more selective about the games I attend. I have some chronic joint issues as well and I want to keep throwing as long as I can. If sticking to games where I can throw the 21# is one of the tickets, I'll do it. My time, travel funds, and other commitments in life let me set that priority. I hope this has answered your question from at least one of your readers. ------------- Teresa Merrick Bellevue, NE |
Posted By: WALLY.OLECIK
Date Posted: 8/01/13 at 9:56pm
------------- 16lb-hammer(at)sshga.org "Try not. Do or do not. There is no 'try!'" Yoda |
Posted By: Juli Peterson
Date Posted: 8/01/13 at 10:46pm
You can't know what that means to me Wally. It's been a low night and hearing that from you is gold. Thank you for taking the time to chime in. I won't forget it. Aloha:) jp ------------- You have to stop doing that Juli, if it worked we'd all be doing it. tosabarbell.com |
Posted By: Juli Peterson
Date Posted: 8/01/13 at 10:51pm
I'm not so savvy yet that I can only select the part of the quote I just put in bold. I know I'm probably on my way to that, just not there yet. Have meant this whole time to show respect to those wishing to throw lighter weight, I just would like to keep to the 28# as long as possible. Appreciate your time and response, makes sense to me. Look forward to sharing the field with you one one day soon. Aloha:) jp ------------- You have to stop doing that Juli, if it worked we'd all be doing it. tosabarbell.com |
Posted By: dWood
Date Posted: 8/01/13 at 11:13pm
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Julie as I stated in my PM to you(this is Terri James on my husbands account) you're a class act! Keep up your fight and I hope to share the field with you in Inverness ------------- JUST BRING IT / SPEED KILLS..BUT STRENGTH PUNISHES |
Posted By: bigirish01
Date Posted: 8/01/13 at 11:37pm
Screw that Juli! You are fine. You asked a legit question and I admire you for wanting to throw the heavier weight. You hit the nail on the Head ... Heavy Athletics!!!!! Everyone lately has their undies in a bundle.... I like your style...don't change! and never apologize! ------------- Jay "Big Daddy" O'Neill |
Posted By: Juli Peterson
Date Posted: 8/02/13 at 6:32am
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First off, I appreciate those who've described their view on throwing the 21'. What I get out of all this hullabaloo is that we each have reasons for wanting to throw what we wish to throw and also, that Kevin has an ucky job. Thanks again Terri and Jay, right on. Thanks for that! Moving on...again. jp ------------- You have to stop doing that Juli, if it worked we'd all be doing it. tosabarbell.com |
Posted By: Flame of Idaho
Date Posted: 8/02/13 at 9:46am
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There is really nothing wrong with Juli Peterson asking. Obviously, if Kevin was so busy with other problems, HE could easily say "no". But this is part of the great thing about the Highland Games: the rules are NOT all set in stone, the AD has the ability to be as flexible as he wishes. If you want stiff ridgidness, and no consideration for individual circumstances (because we are sympathetic, understanding people, and are ALSO in it for the good times) you can go throw with the Track & Field.
Juli's plite is basically to accept a DISadvantage by throwing with a younger age group, in order to have an opportunity. All she did was ask, so leave over already. It is Kevin's choice of how to answer her, and by all rights could reconsider right up to the competition. If too many people start demanding too much, all Kevin has to do is give a big fat NO, and that's that. But he doesn't have to be stone-cold-hearted about a simple request. I'm sure Juli would still throw and enjoy herself if he said no.
You could equate it to a Lightweight opting to throw as an A for a bigger challenge, because he feels he is good enough, and throwing the heavier 56 is no deterent. At a game in Portland, the Masters Women's class were set to throw a 12# heavy and 9# light hammer that particular day (no more, though) and Karyn Dallimore opted to throw the typical 16 and 12 so her distances could count on Nasga. She happened to be good enough above the others in that event that she still pulled off the win despite the "disadvantage" of throwing heavier weights.
The thing is, with the classes and weights still subject to change due to the newness, she has every right to ask, and he has every right to say yes or no as he and his committee see fit.
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Posted By: K Rogers
Date Posted: 8/02/13 at 2:33pm
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Ladies, Ladies, .. Please - I'm trying to move on .. but as background and maybe - in conclusion - I sent this to a friend this morning .. some cut/paste follows: "I was the AD at the MWC2003 for the first Women's group and competition. I invited, registered, judged, scored, and awarded the first Masters World Champion for any Woman .. anywhere. I decided to use the 2 stone weight for women at that contest and the Champion threw over 38' that day to establish the new World Record for women in the HWD. We awarded her with the first World Championship Ring and a new World Record for Women .. she was happy .. I was happy." end cut/pasteNow, we're in a new situation and its not been nearly as happy .. at least not for me. I've been vilified for what we did that day at the World Championships many years ago .. we established women's records at MWC2003 with the 2 stone weight. There was no argument from any of the women there, including the Champion. She was a pleasant competitor in every regard .. and an honorable Champion to the end. She earned my respect and nothing has diminished it. I understand that many people don't know me and don't like me either and many, many don't care about my Scottish Masters Records or how we created them or how we keep them or how we share them or have any regard whatsoever for work our records took to get to the present moment. That is simply a disappointment to me that the story of our early days of MWC have no meaning to so many people currently ready to argue about the details established there. But please understand that we didn't keep all these records for no purpose. It wasn't for my own personal, selfish interest to keep records for women using the 28lb weight. It was because we establish Scottish Masters Records .. fairly establish .. by Champions .. at Masters World Championships .. to be used at each of the the following MWC competitions as records which are to be subject to challenge .. over time and space .. as all records are designed to be used and honored. And now, I've wasted more of my time and yours with this old story. Let's move on .. I hope to hear no more about it but I fear the bluster will continue. Please don't ask me to bend anymore rules. Let's agree to go with this design .. we really do have more issues to deal with .. these distractions are costing us valuable time and energy. -K ------------- http://www.scottishmasters.org/Records" rel="nofollow - Scottish Masters Records |
Posted By: WALLY.OLECIK
Date Posted: 8/02/13 at 4:22pm
------------- 16lb-hammer(at)sshga.org "Try not. Do or do not. There is no 'try!'" Yoda |
Posted By: K Rogers
Date Posted: 8/02/13 at 5:02pm
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Wally- "Why would you have been vilified?" I donno why, its been a disappointing period in my career in Highland Games .. did you miss the nastiness directed at me or did I imagine it? Its possible that the nasty bullshit was expressed in another forum, not this one - but I don't think it was imagined. -K ------------- http://www.scottishmasters.org/Records" rel="nofollow - Scottish Masters Records |
Posted By: WALLY.OLECIK
Date Posted: 8/02/13 at 6:44pm
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l did not have a computer in '03, nor was l at the MWC2003 so l missed any hub-bub about what you had the MWo throw. Once again, 14 and 28 had been the standard since about 1990. You don't think that you're being vilified now, do you? l haven't read anyone putting you down! As far as this thread, first of all, people are just giving you their input (even tho' you never asked for it.) Secondly, l would just ignore all of the men's comments as this change has absolutely nothing to do with them! Nothing!! ------------- 16lb-hammer(at)sshga.org "Try not. Do or do not. There is no 'try!'" Yoda |
Posted By: bigirish01
Date Posted: 8/02/13 at 6:51pm
Yes it does.... we back the MWC... and they used the men as an example to press their case. Because we throw the 42. ------------- Jay "Big Daddy" O'Neill |
Posted By: K Rogers
Date Posted: 8/02/13 at 7:43pm
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Wally- No, there was no hub-bub then .. back in 2003. We threw 28/14 without complaint. And the recent bitterness was kept from you and this forum .. but not from me. And I don't ignore all the men's comments .. if fact, I probably consume too much time with all the comments because I have very high expectations of my fellow athletes. It's often disappointing .. but I'll keep trying because my mom and dad like the highland games and they like me working on something with the Scottish Culture. If not for my parents, I would have told a bunch of blow-hards to bite me .. I quit. -K ------------- http://www.scottishmasters.org/Records" rel="nofollow - Scottish Masters Records |
Posted By: WALLY.OLECIK
Date Posted: 8/02/13 at 9:16pm
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A man needs a purpose. Looks like you found a good one! ------------- 16lb-hammer(at)sshga.org "Try not. Do or do not. There is no 'try!'" Yoda |
Posted By: greynolds177
Date Posted: 8/03/13 at 4:49am
Now that the dust has settled on the 2013 Inverness Highland Games (it went well  and thank you for asking) I have been working with Kevin behind the scenes on the design of MWC2014. He has done a remarkable job in the past few weeks providing me with the information that I need to start tackling the logistical challenges of staging the biggest gathering of Heavies in history; and I am pleased to report that thanks to Kevin we have made good progress over here in Scotland.Our MWC2014 programme is now designed and will be announced shortly. Why the delay? Well I am working my way  through the numerous stakeholders, committees, politicians and agencies that I need to make it happen. We are also waiting to hear if the Camanachd Cup Final - Shinty's premier event will be happening at the same time - which does have a knock on effect in other areas. Hopefully BBC Scotland will make up their minds soon!As you should by now be realising - MWC2014 is only part of what is going on over here  ; being at the heart of the opening weekend of a festival called Highland Homecoming which will run from September 12th to October 18th and will culminate in one of the most important events which will be staged in Scotland next year - The Royal National MOD here in Inverness. That's not all - I have the Inverness Highland Games in July 2014 to deliver before MWC2014 as well has two Highland Strongman events, two Kirking of the Council events, a three day Halloween show, a Civic Bonfire and Fireworks Display, a Christmas Lights Switch On, a Winter Wonderland and of course Scotland's biggest free Hogmany Concert "The Red Hot Highland Fling"parts of which will be live on BBC TV. With RockNess, the Commonwealth Games Baton Relay; a Northern Meeting Park 150 event, the Royal National MOD prep plus the 2015 World Orienteering Championships which will see 6000 competitors hit Inverness and 45 countries heading my way....! (No doubt I have missed something but that gives you a wee bit of context which you will need for the next part!) You can imagine how pleased (that is sarcasm and despair by the way) I was to receive a request from Kevin to extend the event by an extra day because he had received an avalanche of entries. You can also imagine what that request was going to do to my  event budget. At least those of you who are AD's can imagine it. Sadly there are still heavies who believe that Highland Games are organised and paid for by a team of pixies who arrive once a year in the middle of the night. (That's an AD joke - I know many heavies have never given that a moment's thought!  )While I sat down to explain why it was a good idea to have an extra day  - a thankless task which required me to rewrite a whole bunch of reports; I got an obnoxious email  from one person who was furious because a) I had ruined  his holiday and b) his wife was disgusted that she was going to have to hang around a field for 3 days in Inverness while he threw. Naturally I avoided the temptation (well done me) to tell him that his wife was his problem and that we were working on the MWC Loved Ones Programme and that the time to start complaining was after the event was over. I mean, unless you have been to the MWC and sat around chewing the fat with the wonderful people that you meet; you have not got a clue as to whether or not you are going to  enjoy it. Every MWC is different, every city is different, nothing says the same. Hell we are all different. We all have opinions. We all have agendas. We all have good and bad days. Apart from Kevin. Up until recently anyway. Shortly afterwards I had another bad day. I received a request to add an additional World Championship to the schedule and I agreed (as we like to be great hosts over here in Scotland) and I sat down to rewrite a whole load of reports and edit a few websites that needed updating. Naturally I asked the question why and discovered that some of our Heavies wanted to throw a #21 weight instead of a #28 weight. Now it is a matter of record that my earlier posts on this subject - reducing the weight thrown by the 40-49 women to #21- went along the lines of I really don't think that asking them to throw an extra seven pounds is a big deal. Some folk thought that I was saying that they should watch Cinderella backwards in order to discover their place. I was not. I was saying that taking the decision to wipe out the good work done by the athletes who have competed before you in the MWC was something I did not support. Now I have read all the arguments regarding the #28 records that "they will always be there"; but we all know that out of sight equals out of mind. Not one of you sent me a good luck message before the 2013 Inverness Highland Games. (It went well  and thank you for asking) Hicham El Guerrouj and Svetlana Masterkova are names that you should all be familiar with. In earlier times they would have been known by each and every one of you. They are the current male and female holders of the world record for running the mile. They are the athletes who followed Sir Roger Bannister - the first man to run the mile in under 4 minutes. As the author of the MWC2014 programme that I hope you will all buy when you get here; I can think of no reason to list the Women's #28 records if those events are not being contested. As I said out of sight out of mind. Which is one of the reasons why I was happy to support the decision to ask the 40-44 class to once a year throw a #28 and expected that to be the end of the matter. Now that the grumbling has started again... I think it is time for me to go to work. Just so that there is no confusion - at this point as AD of MWC2014 I would like to remind folk that registering for MWC2014 is actually just the submission of a request. Each and every competitor is saying to Kevin Rogers and SMAI that they would like to receive an invitation from myself of behalf of the Inverness Highland Games Committee to compete at our event next year. Previously this has been a straightforward process. You applied - you got invited. This year things are slightly different. More folks applied that we can accommodate and yes! if SMAI had the ability to see into the future(*) I am sure they would have only accepted applications from Highland Games with the capacity to accommodate an unlimited number of Heavies. * Just for the record the person who suggested that in a post is now the proud owner of one of the most unhelpfully pathetic comments ever posted on NASGA by someone attempting to look smart by using hindsight. Congratulations - I could not think any the less of you. Anyway going back to invites - 1. If anyone has a real problem throwing the #28 weight and as a result wishes to withdraw from the competition please let me know and I will arrange for you to receive a refund and not receive an invitation to participate in our event. It is entirely your choice. There is a queue of people who will be happy to replace you. 2. Participation in MWC2014 is entirely at the discretion of the applicant. The events that we are offering are now confirmed and none negotiable. You will be advised of the weights, dimensions of boxes, the dimensions of the landing zones, the rules re foul throws in due course. If anyone has a real problem with the rules of this event and as a result wishes to withdraw from the competition please let me know and I will arrange for you to receive a refund and not receive an invitation to participate in our event. It is entirely your choice. There is a queue of people who will be happy to replace you. 3. Since the MWC was staged in Inverness in 2006 and 2009, the misuse of forums and social media has as we all know has become increasingly more common. I expect those Heavies wishing to receive an invitation to participate at MWC2014 to "play nice" in the months ahead. With freedom of speech comes a responsibility to use that freedom appropriately. However if anyone has a problem with "playing nice" with the other children in the internet playground and as a result wishes to withdraw from the competition please let me know and I will arrange for you to receive a refund and not receive an invitation to participate in our event. It is entirely your choice. There is a queue of people who will be happy to replace you. 4. Seeing as how we are now all friends again - I would now ask you to Kevin Rogers and give him your full support. As I said right at the start of this post - He has done a remarkable job in the past few weeks! Any man able to persuade me to organise an extra day with you lot deserves a medal! Gerry Reynolds AD MWC2014 ------------- A.D.Inverness 1999-present; MWC2006, World Championships 2007, MWC2009 and MWC2014. Organiser of Guinness World Record for Caber Tossing. Scottish Masters International Hall of Fame Inductee 2014. |
Posted By: greynolds177
Date Posted: 8/03/13 at 9:44am
|
http://www.invernessfestivals.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.invernessfestivals.com
Nice film of Northern Meeting Park here ------------- A.D.Inverness 1999-present; MWC2006, World Championships 2007, MWC2009 and MWC2014. Organiser of Guinness World Record for Caber Tossing. Scottish Masters International Hall of Fame Inductee 2014. |
Posted By: jlmreddog
Date Posted: 8/03/13 at 1:11pm
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Well stated Gerry and except for your avatar and tagline no elephants were seen in this post! As for the games thank you to you and Kevin for all your work. Run it the way you want/need to and people can either attend or not. ------------- John McClure Be sure you put your feet in the right place, then stand firm. Abraham Lincoln |
Posted By: Steve Conway
Date Posted: 8/03/13 at 1:23pm
| Agreed... |
Posted By: Jay Holloway
Date Posted: 8/03/13 at 5:13pm
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Gerry Reynolds- Looking forward to Scotland 2014 ------------- You had the height!!!!! |
Posted By: BenEdwards
Date Posted: 8/08/13 at 4:19am
"Clawbeque!" I love that. ------------- http://goalorientedtraining.wordpress.com/ |
Posted By: plockton
Date Posted: 8/10/13 at 10:23pm
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in reply to Africanus, above: Bill Butler of fond memory nearly killed me at Masters #1 in Arkansas by lofting the 22lb hammer over the cage and out backward into the settees on the green; i had just decided to tie my shoe, bent forward and Butler's throw landed in the middle of my back. Being the stalwart I was back then, i was only unconscious for half an hour, after which butler beat me in the light hammer, as was his plan all along. If a vote is being taken, i say no more pansy weights for masters; the whole damn idea is to keep it going til you've had enough enjoyment, or when snapping synapses cry FOUL! and you know its time to let go.. As for Rogers' decision, the problem with putting someone in charge is that they just might take charge, in which case let us support the man and move on, agree or not. rgds |
Posted By: Wayne Pogany
Date Posted: 8/12/13 at 4:45pm
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Wasn't it Bill Butler who threw the 28 into the river at MWC01?? Me and another guy in our class held him by his ankles over the steep bank so he could yank it out of the mud..... |
Posted By: plockton
Date Posted: 8/19/13 at 1:04pm
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wayne, great memory thanks; i flashed a picture of that, and started laughing immediately. hope you are well after all this time. Masters Comp has come a long way since then, Kevin Rogers has been irreplaceable in that regard and i support his leadership. who else wants to step up and drive all this? the line starts over there...otherwise give your opinion and get out of the way |