We just all ought to be happy we have someone who's willing to put all the work into making sure this event comes off every year.  So, GO ANGUS BILLY!   ...and when you all get around to noticing that they have "throwers choice", as Mike Smith said, "If you don't like it, don't go".  I shudder at a national organizing body that tells everyone how to run their games.  The differences are what makes them special.   

Dan, I totally respect your opinion.  Here was my thought at the time.  First of all, I appreciate how you approach these issue.  I started here in the midwest where "thrower's choice" was more common than not.  I "thought" I was doing the other guys a favor by having a shorter weight available.  But maybe not.  I'm sure that will be an issue on many events in McPherson (not just WOB).  But that is how McPherson has always been run and a variable (positive or negative depends on the beholder) of a games run under those conditions. What seems to happen is that one weight gets picked and it's usually the best one and no one bothers to every use a different one and that's why it usually goes unnoticed.  WOB may change that as one type of style, for the first time, may have an advantage with a different implement.  My thing is that if you know that's how a games is going to be run, then a guy should have no gripe about it, just don't throw at that one.  Al Myers has laid it out for McPherson pretty clearly.  However, it doesn't mean that I don't think you have an interesting point that I hadn't considered before. 

david barron wrote: I'm going to go ahead and guess that most of the "masters" haven't actually been in the sport long enough to understand and respect the traditions.

Thank you.

Angus Billy wrote: There seems to be a lot of complaining about spinning the Weight Over the Bar (WOB). I find this is mostly by the athletes who haven't picked up on the technique yet. After all, it is called "weight for height" and "weight over the bar" without reference to any special technique. So before you start complaining about changing something that you think is "set in stone", let's recap some of the other events in heavy athletics: 1. Open stone. When I was in high school no one in track and field (T&F) had heard of the spin technique for the shot. In face the glide was beginning to gain wide exceptance over the "side step". Remember Perry O'Brien the 3-time Olympic Champ - glide. Then some T&F guys came up with the spin and soon it spilled over into the Scottish heavies. I don't hear anyone complaining about that change. 2. Somewhere along the way someone put spikes on their hammer boots to obtain and advantage for more distance. Perish the thought of that change. 3. Does anyone remember what the sheaf technique looked like 20 years ago? Straight over the head for the bar. Then the side swing came into use and heights improved. Now it too has a spin technique. 4. I'm sure the distance events have also experienced some evolution of techniques as athletes sought greater distances. 5. In Scotland they allow two handed tosses in the WOB. Can you imagine that. Doesn't matter what event you have, athletes will always find a way to stay within the rules and improve technique for better throws. Maybe just the way they grip the handle. That's just the way it is. I have not seen any set of rules that says the spin in WOB is illegal. Some games don't allow it and most that don't claim a safety reason. That's fine, in certain settings there will be safety concerns. But don't call it illegal. And, don't complain when it's allowed just because you can't do it (I know I never could - damn near tore my arm off).

Where ya been?

axelson wrote:  I always thought that WOB was the event to separate the men from the boys. To show who was the most powerful.  People have already seen the WFD, why would they want to see just another variation of that throw in competition? I

AMEN!  Could not have said it better.     

And we are OFF once again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*yawn*

over/under on # of posts in this thread when it's done?

38 sounds reasonable, No?

If agreed, I'll take the over.

Craig is such a gambler!

I/m with the "AXE" Axelson on this one . For me it was about the tradition (as noted by the good Barron) and the notion that the caber, along with the Wt Fr Ht created some contrast in the games- PURE POWER. I would not call peoples opposition to the cheating style complaining, I would call it having the grapes not fall in line.

Roy Bogue wrote: 38 sounds reasonable, No? If agreed, I'll take the over. Craig is such a gambler!

Make it 42 and you've got a deal.

PETA is going to step in on this one for reports of beating another horse....  somewhere lil'baby Jesus is crying

Oh Dave...

You almost made me leave the Dark Side with that post!

17/20 wrote: I/m with the "AXE" Axelson on this one . For me it was about the tradition (as noted by the good Barron) and the notion that the caber, along with the Wt Fr Ht created some contrast in the games- PURE POWER. I would not call peoples opposition to the cheating style complaining, I would call it having the grapes not fall in line.

Personally, I would call it winning the event. We all train like madmen, we study video, we watch others throw at the meets we throw in, and we try to improve, including trying to improve the technique. I thought this is the kind of stuff a real field athlete does.

This stuff reminds me of groaning about the sheaf as an event by people who don't throw it well, so the event must not be legit. Since I'm not a great athlete like the rest of you guys are, I've tried to be cheerful about learning how to do all the events the best I possibly can. When I first started this stuff, I had no field experience and no expectations, so I also didn't have any sort of elitist attitude about any of this stuff.

And that's what I'm calling all you naysayers about the spin, you're elitist, and you've forgotten the spirit of what we're trying to accomplish - farther and higher - which is far better represented in tradition than being uptight about another athlete's technique.

Do strongman events if you think a standing wob separates the men from the boys. The bottom line is, if you expect to see the best pros in the world show why they are the best, then likely you will not see any standers winning or even placing in the wob. But wait - some of the best pros are both great standers and spinners. To me, they represent a new elite level of field athlete, partly because they didn't turn their noses up at learning a new technique. The guys who are both great standers and spinners are all exclusively in the top 10 in the world. This is not the case for any other highland games event.

It seems only athletes who have already excelled at either strength contests or on the field are the ones who complain loudest about this technique, and I don't understand why, because all you guys could pick it up a lot easier than I did. 

The objective is to throw the weight over the bar. I do find it interesting that spinning WOB, and Sheaf, are the only objectively scored events with an unlimited approach.

Don,

I think its complaining if its already been decided and communicated that a said games is allowing the spin.

It's about tradition for you? at the risk of getting on your and your supporters bad side, I think most will agree it was a conflict of interest that you were the AD hosting the MWCs and required them to change to "standing only" against precedent (had been allowed before) AND you competed in them (or were at least planning to) as a stander.

I hear "balance" and pure power as preferences by some, but where does it say or even imply that these must be maintained? (mostly by the people who want to maintain that as a competive edge)

Dave, how many years does it take? how can you judge. I'll put my traditions (and Angus Billy's) up against yours any day.

Roy Bogue wrote: It changes the chemitry of what once was a great balance of athletic oriented events, and pure power events.  Their used to be a nice balance.  It has swung more to athletic with the spin IMHO.

Roy, you can't bitch unless you're still throwing. So........you bored with fishing yet?

going to beat the over/under

be nice.....

  Well we all know that traditionally, throwers had spikes on thier shoes for the hammer , tons of tacky and tape, creatine and protien suppements, and always wore spandex shorts to keep from scaring the kiddies.

  In reality, if you're sore about spinners, stop you're complaining and just throw farther. I'm not a spinner, but I'm also not gonna bitch just because I'm too set in my ways to learn a new technique. Changing the technique isn't going to change the event or the sport so you so called "traditonalist" can stop losing sleep over the whole thing.

Carlos got caught up in the anti spamming delay.

17/20 might blow a gasket at Brents Post.  oh Shit!

Roy L4 and L5 are blown from training like a man and not a spinner. Brent I also attempted to introduce the 56 to the 40-49 groups, but that was considered cruel and not fair. Bill thought it was too Hvy for some. Some=spinners.

17/20 wrote: Roy L4 and L5 are blown from training like a man

and a genetic defect.

Thanks Don, Hopefully they will fuse solid in a year or two.

17/20 wrote: I also attempted to introduce the 56 to the 40-49 groups, but that was considered cruel and not fair. Bill thought it was too Hvy for some. Some=spinners.

loooooooooooooooooooool!

That made me laugh....I know some 40-49 HEAVY EVENTS athletes that would agree with you 100%.

17/20 wrote: Some=spinners.

Heh. I probably have the 40+ distance and height records. Steve may also have the distance record.

I've been lucky with the back. Only had it lock up one time at the Glasgow games. Not so lucky with other body parts. Left bicep distal tendon, right bicep upper tendon, right shoulder labrum. All these surgeries I attribute to sheaf and spinning with the weight. Standing is much gentler on the body, which is important for some of the older guys

The sheaf is by far the most injury causing event for those of us who can crank on it. Also, I've been told that spinners have bigger penises.

Is this what they mean by MassDebation?

 I wonder if I can persuade the boys to have a crack at the World Record using the spin on the Monday July 23rd in Inverness following the World Championships.

Would the ultimate mini Highland Games count as a suitable venue for a World Record attempt?

Also, I've been told that spinners have bigger penises.

BWAHAHAHA! Theirs or someone elses?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Nn-f2uCSNY - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Nn-f2uCSNY

Nice tune BFJ but I think this one may be more appropriate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTHQkDh84Ck - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTHQkDh84Ck

K-Man - Have or are?.....guess that's why the guys down here call me dick head when I spin way higher than they stand............or is it when I stand higher than they spin....hell, I can't get it straight.

You know, I go to a lot of trouble to try to wreck some of these threads around here, and you guys are bound and determined to get them back on a serious direction. Thanks a lot.

Gerry,

I was at a games that did that once. I don't think they went for the record officially or unofficially but just gave the crowd a chance to see an alternate technique.

It'd be interesting to do that and then somehow gauge the crowd's reaction by asking for applause or a show of hands who liked it. Or just walking around the crowd for opinions.

 We are planning a Coaching Camp with the 5 USA Heavies on the Monday to give some of our Junior Heavies some intensive coaching.

I can easily lob together a 5 event programme if that is what is needed to make any record official.

Not planning on inviting a crowd in to see it..... just an idea...

You know, I go to a lot of trouble to try to wreck some of these threads around here, and you guys are bound and determined to get them back on a serious direction. Thanks a lot.

K-Manster Carlos and I are doing our part to help.

Please... sweet Betsy Ross no...

(curled up on floor weeping gently)

Roy Bogue wrote: Bored, No WAY!, going today, tomorrow and Sunday.  Lot's of Big striped Bass out there.  You know me Kearney, I can't stop bitching.  It's just how I roll.........

Friday Night fishing - PB'ed on striped bass! - 40" and 23# - as Craig might say, Booyah!  Even got to watch fireworks on the way in!

With Sat and Sunday still to go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Roy,

I don't fish or hunt - I can't stand gutting animals. I know... I'm a sissy.

But on Monday a guy from our church is taking a few of us on staff out fishing in Lake Erie. We're supposed to go 4-5 miles out where there's a "shelf" and it gets realy deep. Supposed to catch a lot of walleye.

I'll email or pm and let you know what I end up with.

How's that for hijacking a thread? Us retired guys have to stick together.

Chicks yes

Women No, ever since "the picture" was shown

How far from WOB spin can this thread go?

This thread could soon have legendary status........

greynolds177 wrote: Wandering off topic boys....proud of ya!

greynolds177 wrote: How far from WOB spin can this thread go? This thread could soon have legendary status........

Do you get the feeling that spin/stand has become a boring issue?  Now, about those fish....

Queen, C'mon,  I look handsome on the throne!  and yes, it is good we deviated from this topic!

That pic is perfect for this thread, someone bump it on here for me!!

Spinning, standing, who cares?  Get the darn thing over the bar and quit changing the set up.  Want to know what is really important? Try getting rid of that stuuupud sheaf toss.  Talk about a waste of time?  For the umteenth time, it is not a Scottish Highland Games event. But even that is nothing new to discuss.  If it is in the games, you toss it.

What I want to see is one of you three hundred pound plus fellows do that cartwheel  shot put technique that was on the board about a year ago.  Now that is something to watch. 

Brent Abbott wrote: Don, you should consider spinning and stop lifting. Ive got my back, knees and dignity intact.

Brent, you've got your back and knees intact because you've not been an athlete long enough to have the problems that we, who have been athletes all our lives, are experiencing.  Honestly, your body hasn't been punished long enough to have our problems! So I guess it paid off to be a nerd in school!

How long have I been an athlete, Al?

Be carefull you not judging someones athletic age by the number of injuries.

Brent Abbott wrote: Dave, how many years does it take? how can you judge. I'll put my traditions (and Angus Billy's) up against yours any day.

Brent, it's not a question of your traditions versus mine. It's about the traditions of the Highland Games. I was really talking about how long some of the athletes have been involved in the sport. You have probably been around longer than most, but I think there are a lot of Seniors just starting out, who haven't been around long enough to get all curmudgeonly like me.

Brent and Al is this gonna get like the old Brent/Al/Brean posts? I hope so those made me laugh. Are you guys gonna have a steel cage match? Al, just because Brent is one of the more intelligent Highland Athletes, he's an engineer you know, doesn't make him a nerd. It's good to see that even though you can't be an athlete anymore Al, you are still an athletic supporter.

Bonus points to Dave for using curmudgeonly in a sentance.

Groan.

who knows, I may have beaten Brent in more than just caber, WOB and hammers...

Moot an subsequent are fine words but when was the last time you heard someone use curmudgeonly?

So no steel cage match then?

I always pictured Dave as more of a

Why?

Because.

Nah Definitely Freddy.

Ouch. I freaking hate that g*d damned pinhead.

david barron wrote: Ouch. I freaking hate that g*d damned pinhead.

Can anyone guess what will be on Roy's T-shirt next time he sees Dave?