Another post copied from The Ring, where there have been some interesting and informed points made recently.  For those who don't know, Ron was twice a World Masters Heavy Events Champion and previously an excellent shot putter for his stature who trained with several legendary throwers.  Ron, if you are reading this, I hope you approve of me using your post.

I always correlated my shot putting distances with my squat weights. If over 700 lbs (legal power squat, shoulders right at shoulder width, or just a smidge wider, low on the traps, using some back) I was throwing over 60' and ready for a PR. Keep in mind that this would be good for a 8 week period and that "unloading" from that squat, sometime during that 8 weeks, I would get "HOT" and be cranking. After performing the 700, I would then only squat with 505 lbs. once a week, and it felt like a feather. This gave me the muscle contraction training I felt I needed, and allowed for me to rest and recharge my CNS. These were my beliefs.

It is my humble opinion that I read of so many of you guys caught up in the "science" of what you are doing. A lot over over-analyzing. INSTEAD try working out in a way that improves your SELF-ESTEEM and makes you feel like a TIGER WITH WINGS. When you feel AWESOME, you will throw far! I realize that all of us have to adhere to certain bio-mechanical science, but after it is all said and done, get your asses out and THROW, LIFT, AND MAKE SOMETHING OUT OF YOURSELF!

Ron McKee

Peter Ingleton wrote: It is my humble opinion that I read of so many of you guys caught up in the "science" of what you are doing. A lot over over-analyzing. INSTEAD try working out in a way that improves your SELF-ESTEEM and makes you feel like a TIGER WITH WINGS. When you feel AWESOME, you will throw far! I realize that all of us have to adhere to certain bio-mechanical science, but after it is all said and done, get your asses out and THROW, LIFT, AND MAKE SOMETHING OUT OF YOURSELF!

I couldn't agree more with this (esp the part i put in red). 

Great post peter...100% agree

I was one who changed everything for the sceince... then stop and look @ what I was doing... now I am back to what I beleive will improve me and hopefully result in a better athlete

Buck

Another experienced viewpoint from The Ring, this time from "70 Footer".  Again, this is with respect to T&F throwing, specifically shot putting, so things might be a little different for HG throwers.

when I came up I was told that if I squated 500 lbs , and if I could pull 300lbs , and bench 400lbs then I could throw 60 feet , then later if I wanted to throw 70 feet i would have to bench X and squat X, and so on.
so I went along with this all the way up , then ya meet guys that can bench 600 and squat 800 and pull a mountain , how can you compete with that?
and looking back on it there was also guys like Dean Crouser...240lbs , 6' 4'' benched only 350 and squated 400 , but threw 69' 10'' and was national champ. everyone talks about Cantwells big bench but I hear he only squats 400lb. so many guys get strong then try to get stronger still and end up getting injured and never throwing again.

so in the end I think it is about being strong , strong ''enough'' , enough to hold a damn 16lb shot and do things with it...make it feel lite in your hand and accelerate the thing ....if this was only about strength we would have a world champ in the shot and the squat all at the same time...but it is not just about strength...I love that OLDFIELD used to yell at guys while he blew them away by 12 feet in a competition , he'd say ''why don't you try bench pressing it , maybe you can throw farther then'' , or he'd say , "it only weighs 16lbs , quit trying to out squat me and try out throwing me"

so in conclusion I think that strength is important , but only to a point ,after a 550 squat and a 450 bench , you are done ....the rest will be about moving a 16lb shot quickly over a short distance. at the highest level we are athletes , not powerlifters, not olympic lifters , we are athletes that can do our thing even while holding onto a 16lb ball of iron , and yet we are still loose, and nimble and lightening fast...

Peter Ingleton wrote:  everyone talks about Cantwells big bench but I hear he only squats 400lb.

bwahahahahahahahahah!  Surely you don't believe that Cantwell can only squat 400????????

Peter Ingleton wrote: so in conclusion I think that strength is important , but only to a point ,after a 550 squat and a 450 bench , you are done ....

Really?  Just coincidence then that MANY of the top shot putters were/are MUCH stonger than that?

big MAC wrote: I've got a video of Cantwell squatting 562lbs for a double, wasn't easy for him, but looked good for 600 at least. Either way, he spins really upright with a 600lb bench and good rhythm, the squat is hardly important for him.

That i can believe.  600 lbs is a long way from 400 lbs.

Craig,

I wasn't necessarily adopting this post as my position, just putting it out there for discussion and consideration (for example, I know Cantwell squats a lot more than 400, but I am not sure if he squats much more than he can bench, not that it matters much with his technique).  And while I agree that the squat number is too low, and that many top shot putters can bench more, I still think his more general point is valid, namely that after a certain level of strength has been attained, which will vary from athletes to athlete, other factors become more important for throwing success.  If this were not true to a large extent, then, with some basic qualifications, the stronger thrower would always win, which is definitely not the case. 

This leads to a point or rather a question I have been alluding to but not actually addressing over the past week or so:  While a big deadlift seems to be a big factor for some guys, and some excellent throwers have huge deadlifts (you, KO, Myles, 17/20, etc.), to what extent is the big deadlift directly responsible vs. the fact that a big enough deadlift inevitably translates into a high level of throwing power, which might be able to be developed in other (perhaps more efficient) ways?  In other words, it might not be the 700+ dead, but rather that this level of basic strength results in the power to do a high pull from your knees to your chest with the amount of weight necessary to throw far.  Other athletes with similar results might train using dynamic pulls of some type and pull the same amount to their chest but be able to deadlift far less.  Just a thought.