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Stones: High Elbow

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Juli Peterson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Juli Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Stones: High Elbow
    Posted: 4/14/14 at 1:40pm
Hokay, I hope this makes sense. I have been doing a winter's worth (oh, and it's snowing right meow so I guess winter not over yet) of foot drills for my stone throws. I'm getting my legs involved far more than I was last year but barely any push from my arm. (Kind of a crucial part of the throw I imagine?) Here's my question, is it possible to have your throwing elbow TOO high that would cut off an efficient "push" from the arm (engaging your entire muscle structure for the furthest push?) 

Or is the release not a push at all and I've got the wrong scenario in my head?

Appreciate any real feedback (not that I don't love the trolls, just don't learn as much from them.)

jp


You have to stop doing that Juli, if it worked we'd all be doing it.

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Nathan Parker View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Nathan Parker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 4/15/14 at 2:42pm
Hi Juli. I'm not the most technical person on this site, but I can tell you that if you have the stone tucked and your hand pushing it into you neck then you're going to want that elbow up. Up as high as it will go. Dropping the elbow is a bad thing. It may feel awkward, but it puts you into the best position to push the stone up and out.

YouTube has a million vids you can benefit from.

Also, master the stand before gliding or spinning IMO.
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Juli Peterson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Juli Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 4/15/14 at 4:37pm
Thanks Nathan. My observation in watching both Highland Gamers and Shot Putters (is that a word) is that the elbow is about parallel or even slightly below the shoulder joint. Taking into account anthropometry, delt/shoulder size etc, the difference is that my elbow is above. As "far" above as possible. Therefore, when I drop it, do I put myself in that "sweet spot" that others begin with and now I've worked my way out of that after being told not to drop my elbow? Dunno. Practice and video. If there is indeed not a "too high" position, then I need to figure what else I'm doing that's preventing me from a good push.

As for mastering the stand, yes. Ironically enough yours is the 3rd time I've heard/read this in the last few days. Roslik and I were discussing this very thing on Saturday; I read it on Duncan's log and now this. Solid. My standing has improved a bit, we'll see where this takes me.

I appreciate the reply very much. Thank you!

jp
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Hapy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 4/16/14 at 3:49pm
I don't think there is anything wrong in particular with keeping your elbow at whatever position is most comfortable.  I think the important thing is that you want to press the stone into your neck, and not hold the stone in your hand.  If you drop your elbow, then you are no longer "pressing" the stone into your neck to keep it from falling, but rather are now balancing it in your hand, and this is what you do not want to do.

Standing throws definitely are best to ingrain that feeling.  Uncoil from the ground up, making sure your hips get parallel to the trig before your upper body (SEPARATION), and then PUNCH and reach up and out over the trig!

good luck!
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D. Haakenson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote D. Haakenson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 4/16/14 at 11:23pm
I believe that you can have a very low elbow and still have the stone in the correct position; especially if you are a glider. In fact, depending on the length of your arms and the size of the stone you almost certainly will have to have your elbow below parallel. What is important about this (and I think it is much more important than some people give it due) is delivering the stone in a straight line. Your elbow should be behind the stone at delivery. So whatever the angle between your elbow and wrist is, should be the angle of attack for delivering the stone. A lot of great stone and shot putters keep their elbow quite low and, instead of pressing the stone into their neck as Hapy suggests, push the stone under the chin. Typically these are gliders such as Timmerman 

Spinners tend to hold the shot or stone further back behind the ear such as Barnes.
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Juli Peterson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Juli Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 4/17/14 at 9:23am
Both good points and I'm very appreciate for your input. The "elbow behind the stone at delivery" is something I've never thought of before. I imagine that I DO bring my elbow forward which could explain why I'm "closed" off at the block instead of finishing in a more 'open' position? You can't have both eh? So keeping the elbow back (whether low or high) is just as important in the equation. 

VERY interesting. Thank you!!

jp
You have to stop doing that Juli, if it worked we'd all be doing it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote wsciscoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 4/17/14 at 2:41pm
Juli,
I wouldn't worry about it not feeling like you're getting a good push. You're not throwing the stone with your arm you're throwing it with your legs. If your legs are doing what they're supposed to be doing you won't have a huge strain on your arm your arm will be a guide and give you that last little push and flick at the end of the throw. most of the stone acceleration is going to happen while it's still on your face.
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Daniel McKim View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Daniel McKim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 4/17/14 at 4:17pm
Yep.  Gliders typically hit that stone up under the chin.  I wouldn't worry so much about the position of the elbow, rather how far back on the neck you go.  Like Daniel said, spinners have it way back there.  From my experience, be careful here, as it's easy to get carried away and hold it too far back.  As discussed, that alters the angle of your elbow.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BenEdwards Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 5/04/14 at 5:34pm
Great points here!  I am refreshing myself on some of the things I learned back in 2010.  I didn't learn much, since I only did two games. 
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