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TRAINING LOG: Greg York |
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Andrew Akins
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Posted: 6/12/12 at 1:48pm |
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Me = lost and confused. Where is 0? I need lots of work on the weights. Watch more video. Hopefully figure it out.
Thanks! The video really shows the emphasis on "pulling it down". On the hip pop, it appears that you REALLY push off with the left leg. ??? Also, do you get a lot of gaiin with 3 or more winds over 2? I've been trying to work on 3 but haven't seen any difference.
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Greg York
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Posted: 6/12/12 at 2:04pm |
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That sounds pretty technical. I'll probably need a slomo video on that. :D |
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jsully
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I drive to zero, biatch! Joined: 9/13/10 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2813 |
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Posted: 6/12/12 at 2:07pm |
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I've been getting anywhere from 8-15ft from the 3rd wind. Any more than that and I start slowing down. I use the winds to get progressively faster. First wind is setting up, getting my balance and rhythm, staying loose. Second wind is to add speed, drive my right knee and pull the hammer down preparing for max speed. Third wind is to get as long as possible, drive the knee even harder, pull down harder then boom, huge hip pop thrusting my hips forward and throwing my upper body back, arching hard, triple extension, all that jazz.
hope that helps some.
sorry to clog up your log Greg.
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jsully
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I drive to zero, biatch! Joined: 9/13/10 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2813 |
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Posted: 6/12/12 at 2:15pm |
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lol.. my first 40ft throw in competition was about 20 minutes after I pulled my right groin (tucson last year). I didn't want to overly push my groin but I still wanted a big throw. So, I focused on transitioning my body onto my left and getting a strong drive from my left leg. I went 39'11.5" and fouled a 41'1. What I focus on after my first turn (for the sprint) is not sprinting off my right leg, but using my right to load my left quickly, while the weight is falling (as I'm pushing it) to zero. Then I explode off my left, land, get my left down quick again and immediately start transitioning forward again onto my left leg. Sink, twist, explode. Load your left leg up like you're going to do a 12" step up. Push the weight out into the sector, don't pull it. So, you're sinking, twisting, and while this is going on, you're loading the shit out of your left leg then it's a huge PUSH with your left leg. Watch the big-time throwers, they all have to reverse to save the throw. Thats because they're pushing off their left leg so hard it throws their right forward. The massive massive throws end up getting fouled from the right stepping over.
leg leg > right leg with regards to weights.... in my opinion
watch my left leg, all my right is doing is shifting my weight forward.. my left is where the power comes from (my tendonitis tells me that, lol) I seem to be laying a whole bunch of stuff on you at once, for that I'm sorry, I'm sure it gets confusing. I want it to be known to anybody reading that I don't think I'm anywhere close to the best. The way I explain things are the way I have interpreted them. I don't have a throwing background and the prescott games on 5/12 was the 2 year mark for me in the games. I just like to help people out and I seem to do well with figuring out what cues can make people move certain ways... so I hope nobody things I'm some arrogant a-hole, because that's nowhere close to the case. I just want everyone to have a great time and throw far!!! Take care fellas!
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Andrew Akins
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Posted: 6/12/12 at 2:18pm |
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Yes,Thank you! Geometry terms help.
You know he likes it.
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"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." - T.S. Eliot
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Greg York
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Posted: 6/12/12 at 2:24pm |
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Zero is this term I hear people toss around to describe the lowest point of the arc. Most people who have helped me wanted me to get the zero point directly in line with my hips. Assuming a right handed thrower and the floor of the trig is the face of a clock where 12:00 is the field, and you're doing the full throw, the first zero from the cast falls dead on 3:00, the second zero after the first turn is dead on 6:00, the third zero after the second turn is dead on 6:00. If you're doing line drills or sprint drills your zeros fall at 6:00 on every turn. I think this is the beginner version of zeros. Because, if you watch really good throwers who are really chucking the damn things, you'll see different zeros. Vierra's last zero sometimes appears to be about 5:00. JSully's first zero is behind him. Clearly there's more to the story, but I haven't read that far ahead. But the beginner version is good enough to start with. Just focusing on 3:00, 6:00, 6:00 and the hip alignment helps pattern the movement. Once patterned, you can begin to play with it - nail it early, nail it late - learn how it messes up or adds to your particular style. Now I'm learning how to use Hips to accelerate the weight, I may need to so some relearning. |
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Greg York
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Posted: 6/12/12 at 2:26pm |
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Clog away.
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Greg York
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Posted: 6/12/12 at 2:33pm |
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The people who take the time to explain the physical nature and feeling of what they're trying to accomplish or have just learned are the most valuable resource in this community to those of us just learning the ropes. I really appreciate anyone taking the time to coach. And man, I have every intention of passing it on. |
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jsully
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I drive to zero, biatch! Joined: 9/13/10 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2813 |
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Posted: 6/12/12 at 5:11pm |
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this is what I was referring to above (or back one page, I dunno). By having your first zero at 3:00 the low point is too far off to the right and can mess up the entire full throw. Think of your sprint drill. Essentially that IS the full throw, without the first turn, right?
You yourself said you were having troubles with putting together the full throw, but were having reat success with the sprint drill. Without seeing video, I'm going to guess that's because you're first zero is at 3:00. You're high point is then somewhere around 10:00 and you can never recover with your low point at 6:00. The entire rest of the throw the orbit is cock-eyed and you can never get a huge sprint on it. Video tape your full throws from the back and video tape your sprint drills form the back. Watch the angle of your orbit, the plane of it. Does the angle of the orbit lean one way or the other, or is it straight across the horozontal plane with the high at 12:00 and low point at 6:00?
You want "zero" to be as close to 6:00 as possible coming out of the very back. Frasure's WR sets his zero at about 5:30-5:00 ish, then drives it to 6:00. Some throwers let it get to 4:00. Most of them keep it as far behind them as possible. As the weight is going left behind you it'll reach it's low point and then it'll reach it's high point. This is where you be patient. If you start turning your upper body, that pushes the low point out to your right side and the whole throw is off. Sure, you can recover a lwfd, but you'll lose feet. With a hwfd, forget about it, the whole throw is done. As the weight starts traveling right again (while it's behind you) you want to sink down a little so it reaches it's low point near your right leg, preferably inside of it. After it's low point and it starts rising again, then you can turn your upper body a little. This is what I meant by guiding it. You're going to twist your torso a little to guide it to 12:00. This is where it's preference for your first turn. Turn late and you'll miss the drive to zero, turn early and it'll push you forward. It comes down to how fast you make your first turn. The fact of the matter is, where you set your low point out the back dictates the entire rest of the throw. It took me a year and 10 months to figure this out. When I figured it out I immediately was hitting 38-41 consistently with the 56 (once I figured out when to turn, haha). Since I've learned the drive my average is now 40-42 with the occasional 43-44. With more reps I'm confident some big ones are in there.
Unfortunately, there's a chain of events, a butterfly effect if you will. Change one thing for the better, and it negates what you've drilled in for a couple hundred reps. Fix that and it negates something else, etc etc etc. One of the very reasons I love throwing. It's so technique driven.
Now if I could just figure out how to throw a stone.. DAMMIT!!! |
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Greg York
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Joined: 11/08/11 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 547 |
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Posted: 6/12/12 at 6:58pm |
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Yup. I heard you. And, I've noticed a number of throwers with the 0 behind them on the cast after your post.
You can be sure I'll be wringing that out! My old "stand there at the end of the first turn until it zeros then push sideways with the right foot" is done for. It'll be interesting to see if I can get it together before Portland/Enumclaw. I had a dream about a 63 foot throw, then, in the dream I went to the office and told the naked yoga chick all about. When I woke up, I realized I was WAY more excited about the 63 foot throw than the naked yoga chick. Something is wrong with me. I really want that 63 foot throw! |
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Greg York
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Posted: 6/13/12 at 9:56am |
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Gym
Franken-training-lab 10x3@ 185 Front Squats 10x3@ 135 Push Press 3x5@135 Good Morning 3x5@45 one foot box jumps (both legs) 3x5 pullups (aided) 3x15 facepulls down (rehab) 3x15 hitchers up (rehab) 10 min cooldown on tread Left gym energized instead of rundown. Feeling much better since Docs identified my GERD issue.
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Greg York
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Posted: 6/15/12 at 9:07am |
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Rough day yesterday. Got into my head. Rough night last night.
To the field to find some relief. Keeping it light w low expectations. Warmups 7xlight stone. Standing. Braemar. Open. 7xlwfd. Cast and throw, sprint drill, full throw. Can't get the timing for the hip swing in the full throw, but still pleased with the sprint drill. 7xdemon light hammer 2 hill sprints Really good idea, those low expectations. :D |
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jsully
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I drive to zero, biatch! Joined: 9/13/10 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2813 |
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Posted: 6/15/12 at 12:50pm |
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http://youtu.be/SYaKJb1aUlM
80' lwfd from the back, might help with a visual for your timing.
ignore my poor first turn and closed hips.
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Greg York
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Posted: 6/15/12 at 9:01pm |
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Thanks man! Makes the position of that first 0 very clear! I'll keep working on it. While i'd love to figure out where you pump in that extra 25 feet, I'm not greedy - i'll be ecstatic if i find 5 extra feet and make an even 60! |
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Greg York
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Posted: 6/16/12 at 12:31pm |
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Light field day...
warmup 16# sheaf - 10x. Except for the warmups, all were over 25', and between my standards. Several were much higher. This is definitely an on day. I hope its repeatable at Tacoma next weekend. LWFD x 7 drills with super 16 WFD. JAKE - I got it! Repeatable. Much, much farther. I'll see if I can transfer it to 28 tomorrow. 16wob x 8. 3 standing. 3 slinging. 3 spinning. My standing and slinging heights seem comparable with this lighter weight, but standing still offer more control. My spinning throw is very rudimentary and a danger to everyone but me but HOLY COW, easily several feet higher. |
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Greg York
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Posted: 6/17/12 at 4:49pm |
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Field day with Northend group.
The other guys are making gains in WFD and stones. We all pretty much suck at Hammer.
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Greg York
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Posted: 6/18/12 at 6:55pm |
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Supposed to be an off day. Say, what's up with the ad servers for NasgaWeb, I mean, DoubleUTeeEff guys? ![]() Anyway, took a short walking lunge tour de yard with a 150lb sandbag and that was eye opening. Have a severe power imbalance left to right. Hadn't noticed it unweighted, but my left is still far weaker than my right. Something to work on...
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Greg York
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Posted: 6/19/12 at 1:15pm |
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Gym (Light week before Tacoma)
Warmups 300 Jumprope 6x3 Front squats at 175 5x3 Flat bench at 155 3x5 Rows at 135 3x10 Cast and turn drills w no weight Rehab work Cooldown walk on the tmill watching "Charmed" on the monitor. I hadn't realized those girls on that show lounged around in underwear so much. I missed all that. Wonder if it's in rerun?
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Alan H
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Posted: 6/19/12 at 1:44pm |
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On weekends when I can't get to the gym, or whatever, I'll do lunges with a 75 pound sandbag. Teaming that up with some relatively deep knee bends -> jump is a real heart-pounder.
37 foot HWFD? whoah. 38, 39 foot O Stone? NICE. |
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Alan Hebert
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Greg York
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Posted: 6/19/12 at 11:18pm |
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What I've learned from my 2 games is this... I picked the most perfect, comfortable and easily thrown stones in existence for my practice stones. And the games... Well, they pick the nastiest, crappiest, must inconvenient rocks they can find.
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jsully
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I drive to zero, biatch! Joined: 9/13/10 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2813 |
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Posted: 6/20/12 at 12:42am |
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sweet.. I needed to take a closer look at positions to make some changes in various things, so I've got a slowmo hammer, bstone and ostone. |
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Greg York
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Posted: 6/20/12 at 9:14am |
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Sweet. I also picked up on the conversation between you and Po. Tried the sitback in some hammer winds. I didn't get all tangled up like I normally do. Couldn't throw (on the patio in the backyard), but definitely feels like it makes sense. Will try a few tosses with that today. Cheers, G |
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Alan H
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Posted: 6/20/12 at 1:08pm |
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Oh, Lord. I *Hate* the O stone at the Claw. It's a freaking meteorite....it's *Huge*. Ditto for one of the 16 pounders that they use in So Cal. The new 16'er on the truck here in Nor Cal is a 0.4 pound heavier version of my light practice rock. I love it. I can tell already that any PR's I'm gonna set will probably come from that rock.
My goal at the Claw in O Stone is just to not embarrass myself. I save the stellar performances for other events! ![]() .......though this year I'm making a subtle change in how I throw O stone, thanks to some advice from Adriane. This may help with the meteorite. |
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Alan Hebert
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Greg York
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Posted: 6/20/12 at 6:51pm |
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Field...
Not much juice today. LWFD and Light Hammer... LWFD Cast, turn and throw drills. Avg around 46ish. Full throws, working timing to find the acceleration with the hip. Found it toward the end of the session. Still not landing well in the second turn. Foot faces 6:00 almost all the time, and I'll do this heal pivot move to reposition the landing foot. When I do sprint drills I can land better, get the foot turned and throw farther. Going to need to find some help to solve this problem. Hammer Kind of a combination of trying to hit the successive low points with each wind, and sit back into it. Don't know why I thought I could do this. One drill requires you to look down while the other forces you to look up. Made quite the hash of it. I have regressed to a mid 70 foot thrower. Oh well. Will wait until after Tacoma to work on this any more. If it hadn't been such a beautiful day, this would be have been a disappointing day.
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Andrew Akins
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Posted: 6/21/12 at 2:50pm |
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I'm fairly sure I'll have that covered for you Alan. In most events.
Greg, there is a good possibility of me showing up at Tacoma and giving the Masters class a shot. Still not for sure, but I have not yet been told I have something better to do.
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Greg York
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Posted: 6/21/12 at 5:00pm |
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This Enumclaw event looks more like it's turning into an educational event rather than a competition. :D Awesome about Tacoma! Pretty strong looking group there, too. Then we'll get to do it again at Skagit. Well, maybe not. I got crammed in with the "A"s. Guess I better dig out the 56 here for a couple weeks. It's all good. I'll root for you nailing 100 in the hammer if you'll root for 90 for me.
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JSiau10
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Posted: 6/22/12 at 8:04am |
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Tacoma is Tomorrow, are you ready?
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I'm just an idiot, pretending to be smart.
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bigirish01
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Posted: 6/22/12 at 8:40am |
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Jay "Big Daddy" O'Neill
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Andrew Akins
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Posted: 6/22/12 at 9:05am |
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emailed them earlier this week and they let me know it was ok. Don't even care what class, as long as I can throw. Still not sure I can make it anyways. Probably decide tonight.
Greg, you'll get 90', just give it time. Took me 3 years to get past 85' then BOOM.
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"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." - T.S. Eliot
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Greg York
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Posted: 6/22/12 at 11:43am |
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Am I ready?
Not really. I read in Matt's book that you don't really need to take a week off before each competition because it ultimately hurts you later in the season as you devolve back into a coach potatoe from lack of work. So I worked out and threw this week. Also, looking ahead, the competition is fierce and my current highland fu isn't a match for some of the folks i meet later in the season, unless they show up sucking (which no one wants) or i learn a little faster. So, rather than call it good and rest for Tacoma, I'm trying to make some fundamental changes in WFD, and Hammer, which, if I work on them now might be working by Enumclaw, so I took a lot of throws on Weds. So freakin' sore this morning... Rolling didn't cut it, so i decided to go lube my monkey with a handful of moderate throws at a park with no measures. Warmup and joint lube 5x5 turn line drills looking for the cast, toe and hip business I'm working on courtesy JSully. 3x hammer, working low, zeroes and knees. Felt good. No measures. 4x light sheaf. Felt good. No measures. Each throw was moderate, focused on technique and progressively farther/higher. This seemed to have worked. Mobile without a continuous stream of grunts. Now, hot shower and a little foam roller love and I'll see you tomorrow, Josh! |
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