I'm doing it wrong

 

Second, intensity-wise for speed, 70-85% is your wheelhouse. Anything above 90% should make up a whopping 10% of your total volume for the lift in a month. (YMMV, I don't feel like debating it to the pedantic out there. It's in Prilepins table and it's been a decent guideline for me personally).

 

Rep schemes is kind of up to you, but I'd stick to triples or less for explosive work. After that, form breakdowns prevent you doing what you're supposed to be doing.

 

Organizationally, start with power, move to strength, toss in some auxilary, finish with conditioning (although ask yourself what you're conditioning yourself for).

 

Perform everything, even your strength stuff, with controlled explosiveness. Don't grind. Grinding builds nothing conducive to your goals as a thrower.

 

Finally and most importantly: DO NO HARM. Pick exercises that give you the biggest bang for the buck, not necessarily what everyone else is doing. Pick the weights that allow you to get stronger, not tear you apart. And do the things that make you move better. Smooth is fast and uninjured is powerful.

 

If you want to get into more specifics and the like, drop me a PM and we can yatter. 

One man's opinion:

Doing cleans and snatches at a high enough intensity to boost your speed-strength takes work most of would be better served investing in throws/drills/hill sprints/etc.  Plus they bang on the body.  

Also, to improve, you need to be, ahem, improving.  Barring a Tendo unit, or something similar, the only way you can demonstrate improvement, measureably, is increased weight.  And max work all the time isn't a good idea for most folks (don't look at my log, I'm kind of an idiot).

So, what to do?  Sroka and I came up with a setup a coupla years back.  As I recall it was something like:

Out of/pre-season:

Week 1

Day 1 - Max/Heavy Squat or DL varient

Day 2 - Max/Heavy Press varient

Week 2

Day 1 - Speed Squat with bands and Speed RDL with bands

Day 2 - Speed Push Press 

---Tom, help me out on percentages here, if you would.

In-season:

Non-games weeks

Day 1 - Max/Heavy Squat or DL varient

Day 2 - Max/Heavy Press varient

Games weeks or weeks that the body is worn down:

Day 1 - Speed Squat with bands and Speed RDL with bands

Day 2 - Speed Push Press 

Oh?  And 2 days a week?  Yeah.  I try to not approach lifting like it's a dare.

Also, while I'm at it, the "be a thrower that lifts, not a lifter than throws" is about the silliest thing there is.  The guys selling that BS are always damn good lifters. And even if they're only good at one lift, it's freaky-good.  

So true! Every time I hear this I'm like "coming from the dude who can squat 5 bills like a boss, pulls 6 for reps and OHP over 3 plates. Now I may be embellishing a little here, but sitting where I am from my throwing "seat" where I feel my form and technique is what has gotten me as far as I have have come in this sport, I always think about how much better I'd be if I were as gifted as everyone else. 

I'm not whining, but Josh is right, gotta get strong to throw far and throwing 3 days a week is not going to give you a 500# squat.

 

you want to argue technique? I've never thrown disc, shot or hammer competitively like 3/4 of the HG athletes on here.

 

outside of bench, my lifts far exeed yours (no disrespect) yet your ostone is right on par with mine and you can braemar better than me.


Josh speaking of strength as durability is right on the money imo. Josh's template is solid btw. I've never seen him post it before but I've done that before myself. It's the perfect amount of heavy work with a "deload" every other week. I like to work up to a 3rm, 2rm or 1rm on heavy days and for my speed work I stick with 40-50% of my max and hit triples (bench), doubles (squat) or singles (deadlift) for 8-12 sets. There are lots of successful throwers that don't do the O-lifts so I'm not convinced they're required. Just my thoughts.

DO IT! You wont feel bad if you do horribly because it's track, not HGames. At least, that's my reasoning for when I suck haha. 

Don is a beast, and will probably end up being another Mainer powerhouse in HGames once he gets a few games under his belt. Make sure you put him in his place when you destroy him in epic Silo lifting awesomeness. 

I strongly agree with most of this, with just a couple of caveats. IF you can catch a weight without hurting yourself in any way, I think catching results in a better lift. But it is not essential and that might not be true for you.

Also, in terms of percentages, the particular lift makes a BIG difference in my experience. If you are doing Hang Snatches to straight legs, or even Power Cleans to straight legs, you can use a much higher percentage of your max safely and regularly than you can with squats or deadlifts. The former lifts tend to be very "go or no go" and as long as you use good form they tend to be quite "easy", which is never true of a near max squat or deadlift. Keep in mind that when calculating percentages, you have to work off lifts performed to the same height or depth, which is something I think a lot of people tend to ignore. The weight you can catch in a half squat will be significantly different than the weight you can catch on straight legs and you need to use the latter number if that is what you are doing.

With respect to your question about strength I would have two comments. First, yes you can obviously get stronger and yes that would obviously help you throw farther. However, given how tall you are the weights you lift will always be lower than someone who is 6' tall throwing the same distances as you (all else being equal, of course). Limb length (and height generally) is hugely relevant, in a good way for throwing and a "negative" way for lifting (because you have to move the bar farther). So get stronger, but do not compare your lifting numbers to guys who are much shorter than you.

Just with respect to your third point, I am not sure why or even if you are disagreeing with me. I explicitly stated that longer limbs are good for throwing (all else being equal, of course). And I never suggested taller, longer limbed guys could not be extremely strong (I assume most modern NFL linemen would qualify, as well as a number of Olympic shot putters and discus throwers and many of the guys in the WSM). I merely suggested that, everything else being equal, a taller, longer-limbed guy is not going to have to be as strong as a significantly shorter guy to throw the same distances. 

Similarly, just to be clear, I never said "shorter" guys could not throw very far (Ryan V and Matso are two obvious examples), just that, everything else being equal, they are going to have to be stronger than a significantly taller thrower. 

Of course you are right, but that is the only way you can talk about these things. Remember the context, which was Jeff's original question/statement about his strength relative to others or what others think you need to throw far. Technique is such a huge factor that you have to "equalize" that in order to talk about these things. The same is true in some ways with explosiveness. Otherwise Feuerbach's WR in the shot makes no sense, or even Ulf Timmermann's. 

The other way of looking at the issue is this:

Jakenz,

I figure the why's are are less important than if they work without banging you up. This is why careful logging helps.  You see the trends if you go back and analyze your own meatheadery.  

that is correct.

Tom,

The weight room makes me durable.  And sexy.  Obviously. 

Pingleton wrote: As long as I do not have to "work" or get myself out of position in any way (this is where people get into trouble in my opinion), catching the bar is very easy and natural for me. And landing on a box is absolutely stress-free for me, with negligible landing forces. I either step down or even use smaller boxes when jumping on high boxes at this point, although I could easily bounce up and down on an 18" or 24" box.

UNLESS you do Olifts and box jumps because you LIKE them.  THAT is fine.  But then say THAT.  There's nothing intrinsically better about your specific training regimen.

Pingleton wrote: With respect to the rest of your post, I largely agree with what you have written, but it is really not addressing the point I was making, which is fine.

I don't accept almost any of your basic premises, so there may be a bit of a disconnect, yes.