Good question man Im not sure on what helps and what dont, could we get a "Coach" up on this one..?

*** note***  I am not a coach although I play one on TV..HAHA

I would assume that with the sheaf it would be similar training as the WOB event training.  It is most closely realted to a hang clean(kind of)   where it is key to explode from a power position leading with the hips and legs then the upper body is passive and mainly giudes the motion..  In talking to RYan V it seems that he has found Jump shrugs(please check with him on this) for WOB and I bet that would be great for the sheaf as well..

I do know a few athletes who do some "sheap" drills but I do not even want to go there>>>>

It has been sad not seeing Greg and the scar at our practices,,,   he has a JOB....  what is his problem....  like that should really be a priority..  I suppose he is going to spend time with his family next....    HHAHAHAHAHAAAA,,  He and I are thinking of crashing the KC games even though we wont qualify and make a scene about how good we are...  I am sure that will work.,.....   NOT..  

But yes  the puncture wound was awesome..  I loved it as John Patton and I were throwing WFD about 50 yards from him and all i see is him holding his knee..  thinking he threw his back out or something...  until I see the fork is part of that knee and blood coming down his leg...  THen the even better phone call to his wife to ask her to please meet us at the hospital to pick him up....  Classic highland games oractice moment...

On that note what are other throwers best practice stories>??????

Brian, I know I owe you an email on this topic. Being lazy, but I will get back to you on it.

One thing I have to disagree with is the use of heavy bags; that's a dangerous exercise and unneeded. If you practice with a heavy bag and it feels like it's not tearing your arm off, then you're not violent enough with the bag to begin with. Work five points with the standing sheaf:

1) Always practice with a bag 2 lbs lighter than in competition. That's a Satchwell trick. You'll get more throws in, and believe me, you can't tell the difference once in competition.
2) With arms perfectly straight, swing the fork back as far as you can, then get it back six more inches. This means putting your chin well into your left shoulder on backswing. My backswing forces me to jump into the air a bit. Never bend your arms!
3) Dip the knees and drive the bag into your right foot. By the time the bag is speeding to the center position, your body will counter by trying to extend or stand up. You're going into the high pull phase, and the bag is moving in a V pattern instead of an arc. This is a Karl Dodge trick.
4) Before coming up on your toes, bring hip pop into play by locking down the left leg. Now you are countering the bag and rotating/driving your hips in the direction of the bag at the same time. Think exaggerated hip shove like Tiger does when he drives a golf ball.
5) Most importantly, the standing throw is a perfect mix smoothness and absolute violence. Practice a flowing technique like sheaf kung fu, but think in your head that you're going to rip the burlap bag right off the sheaf.

Just something to try...

Do a one arm dumbbell clean (or snatch) with the dumbbell held on the outside of your thigh. (Think of the DB as being the forked end of the pitchfork) Quickly lower the dumbbell down to about knee level and then explode back up quickly as possible with knee and hip extension and a violent shrug.  You should end it like a snatch with the lighter weights if you are quick enough.  

This is merely an exercise to do in the weight room though and is not by any means going to be the meat of your sheaf training but it is a good way to vary the weight and speed with out sacrificing your form.  It is simply strengthening the specific muscles of the action without using the action itself.  This way you can develop strength but not at the expence of your form or technique. 

K-Monster,

You are a very good student!

Ryan,

The mistake most make when trying to spin with the sheaf is that they cast the sheaf around in a circle.  When you cast the sheaf, cast it in a straight line towards the standards.  Leave it hanging there.  You then spin yourself (not the sheaf) into position.  This will put you in a position to throw with the bag still high and tightly wrapped.  At this point follow the rest of Kearney's tips.  As you get the technique down you can then work on increasing the speed that you spin with.  You will develop a stronger stretch reflex with the added speed and it will increase your throwing height.  Becareful of those around you as you reach this "terminal velocity".  Sometimes the bag comes off....sometimes.

Oh ya, another point.  Do NOT stab the fork through you knee at this "terminal velocity".  You may not be as...uh...lucky, as Greg.

Finally Greg has a clear advantage ...  as he and I share the inablilty to create such velocity and keeping us safe from danger..  

Thanks Tim...  How is your shoulder holding up???Are you going to throw in KC this year.?

Brandall, I appreciate you. I can always count on you to get all pissed off anytime someone doesn't think exactly like you do. Listen, I apologize that the Burchett boys are doing so well in your old weight class and I understand that since they are spinning, at least you can deny them the outright WOB record. However, can I just ask some questions. Tim does happen to train with Sean Betz who happens to do "OK" with the spin on the WOB and sheaf. 

Now, after saying that, as much as I am shocked, stunned and staggered at this, I do agree with you on some points. For instance, the 190 weight class moving up to at least 200. Even if they go to 220, I will never drop down, so again, this doesn't effect me in anyway but it seems silly that most games will have 20-30 over 190 throwers and then 5-10 190's. I also understand about your point on the Heavy Hammer since we are in the same area and I don't do too many games that has a heavy hammer. That is just like the west coast not doing the sheaf as often.

Lastly, I was actually hoping on here because after my post asking Tim about the spin, I went out to my brothers and threw the sheaf and what Kearney said up there, (I assume K-Monster) I went out and that helped me tremendously so Kearney, you do not know me but thanks, the way you described things clicked with me and I honestly went out and throwing the 20# sheaf was throwing about 1 foot higher than I have been the last few practices and on 2 throws really caught it and looked like I went up about 2 feet farther than I had been. I really appreciate your comments they helped a great deal. I am not using the spin on the sheaf but I am spinning on the WOB and can throw about 6 inches higher using the spin. I practice both and fortunately I suck so bad that neither way will make me competitive but I am keeping PR's in contest for both ways.

Brandall, I understand your stance on people spinning and it making you angry, and teenagers tearing up the lightweight class, and even when you got all pissed off because a pastor can't afford the "popular" crowds expensive kilts and wants to make sure the Sport Kilt is OK. (That just confirmed my thought that you were that popular kid in school that made fun of the kids that there parents couldn't afford the expensive clothes. However, could you try and at least see other peoples points. This is a message board so people can get other perspectives and other peoples points, you should start a Brandall board for people to go to so they can learn what to believe and how to think the Brandall way.

You know Brian, probably half of my quotes on this board are to argue with you. I enjoy it and I hope you do to.

Guys, let us have fun with our strange endeavors together. I've had a few good throws with the spin, and in the first part of 2003 I had it cranking pretty good all the way up to 31'. But it just got too erratic for me and I haven't been able to get the magic back. The spin is a great technique, but the trade-offs and comparisons may end up being a lot like comparing the glide and the full spin shot.

The full spin has more potential, but even after all these years, it's still erratic. The show at the 2004 Olympics was just about as pathetic as it gets. Just like the glide, the standing sheaf puts one at a disadvantage, but it lets you hit the positions a lot more reliably throw after throw. 

Tedd Van Vleck wrote: Tim, Could you go into more detail on the part between casting and starting your throw. What I mean is, I am standing there facing the standard. I cast the sheaf toward the standard and spin into the power position. I have only tried the spin a handfull of times but the sheaf is sliding down the fork before I even start my pull so by the time I checkmark it and start up it is flying straight off to the side. So I know I need to tweek something in the time that I cast up and turn the fork to start down. Keep in mind, I am fat, unflexible and slow. Which may play a small part in this.

Tedd,

I guess I did forget to mention what direction I am facing when I throw the sheaf, that's kind of needed.  When I lead into the cast my left shoulder (the side of the fork holding the bag) is closest to the standards.  That is how I am able to cast the bag "toward the standards" without casting in a circle.  Try not to cast the bag to far out though.  There is a happy medium between casting the bag "out" and casting it "up".

Usually if the bag is sliding off it is due to too much time between the set up and the on coming torque or the bag is not "wrapped" enough.  Once you get the cast down you will find that this issue of the bag falling off the fork is completely be eliminated.  I am finding describing this is much harder than showing it.  If I'm not being clear...tell me.

If you could see it that would be great.  I had tried it a couple of times but it wasn't until I saw Sean do it that it finally clicked.  I can't remember if Thom knows how to spin or not but if he could give you an example it is much easier after you have seen it!  I guess Thom will be biased though.  He, like Kearney, uses the stand, and for good reason! It works better for them.  Can you blame them?  I'd use what ever works better too.

seckmrl wrote: Finally Greg has a clear advantage ...  as he and I share the inablilty to create such velocity and keeping us safe from danger..   Thanks Tim...  How is your shoulder holding up???Are you going to throw in KC this year.?

Ah...to throw.  I wish I could.  My wife is 27 weeks along with our triplets right now so they could be showing up anywhere between 1 and 9 weeks from now.  The later the better!  Once they come though, well I'm sure you understand.  This computer is about the closest I'll come to the Games this year.  Next year should be better hopefully. 

The shoulder is 100% though, thanks for asking.  I seems like coming back from an injury is the name of these games.  Now I just need to get back to the games.

You're going to KC, right?  Even if you have to qualify you should make the cut.  Your outlook is need there to, uh, keep it real...of course.

Thanks Kearney.  Good to see another man-o-multiples is still throwing.  It seems like what you are saying is the norm.  Most say that though it will be three times the work, it is also three times the reward. Hopefully my other two kids will be able to help.  They are both very good kids and are very excited for their new brother and sisters.

We have been in touch with the local Omaha Multiples group and they have a good set up.  They even have an anual "multiples" garage sale.  Let me know if you've got any more tips.  

No good comes from the sheaf toss.  Just reading the postings from this thread proves it.  You all, excuse me, "Ya'all" would have better hammer marks if you did not waste your talents on the sheaf.

Triplets! Good heavens.  I suppose there is a sheafer joke somewhere in there about the old argument about two tines vs. three tines, but I am too much of a gentlement to go there.  Bless you and the wonderful wife, and the three mini sheafers.  Good health to you all.  And get some rest, you'll need it.

Stuupud event.

Richard Doria wrote: Triplets! Good heavens.  I suppose there is a sheafer joke somewhere in there about the old argument about two tines vs. three tines, but I am too much of a gentlement to go there.  Bless you and the wonderful wife, and the three mini sheafers.  Good health to you all.  And get some rest, you'll need it. Stuupud event.

Richard, you need to have yourself some triplets.  Hell, between Kearney and myself we have created 5 more "sheafers".  Soon the entire world will be over run with fork carrying highlanders.  Next they will be throwing all three sheaf weights for distance as well as height.  Then comes the sheaf put, of coarse.  Ahh, the future looks bleek...very bleek.  You'd better get to procreating and save the world from this on coming damnation!

Tim I am honestly torn between 2 games...I of course would like to represent AZ at the KC games...   But there are games in Utah that same day and Jeff Loosle is putting them on and has a pretty good looking under 200 class already almost full. 

I had sent the Hendersons a message wandering what needed to be done to get to KC ..  As I need another games I feel before the June date as I have better throws in me and would like to get them up on the database ..  but without really knowing what will happen this year I don't want to wait to long and not get in any games that weekend...  Have you heard anything about how to qualify yet??

seckmrl wrote:  Have you heard anything about how to qualify yet??

No. Sorry.

Impetuous...

Homeric.

and true.

"You put up a good fight, I hope you get to stick around for the end"

Top 5 favorite John Wayne films:

1. The Searchers (not everyone's favorite because of the character he plays, but its my favorite)

2. Rio Bravo (John Wayne's attempte to create what he felt was the ultimate movie about American resolve to do what's right)

3. McClintock (Just plain fun, who wouldn't want to be McClintock, legendary cattle baron, two fisted, whiskey drinkin', pistol packin' badass cowboy)

4. Quiet man (I watch this thing every, single St. Patrick's day, what my dreams of Ireland and Scotland are like)

5 Sands of Iwo Jima (watched this one in Marine Corp bootcamp, we were so pumped up watching this movie, picture 500 marines cramed in a building elbow to elbow screaming so loud you about blow the roof off>

Chism, just for the begining.  Did you bring gold? 

The searchers is a bummer. 

Seeing The K-Man throw the sheaf is a site to behold.  that loud pop and/or slap you hear at the end of the throw is his butt cheeks slapping together.

Heh.. It's great advice from Ryan. Get's your hips set for all the events.

Hey Kearney, I have been working on the sheaf since reading your post on throwing. My brother and I have been coaching each other with what we read from your post and today I was throwing about 3 feet higher with the 20 lb sheaf. I am pumped. I really appreciate you sharing your knowledged. It has helped tremendously. I am very excited about this year. It has been 2 years since I competed and I was so excited today when things just "clicked" finally with everything I was implementing that you had said. Thanks again.

Tedd

That's great Tedd and gratifying to hear. I'm just passing along the help that I was given.

Having a good sheaf performance in competition is very rewarding. I can't remember all the times that I've made a height on my third and final throw; Makes that steak at the Outback taste awesome later that night.

This might be handy to help train the sheaf?

http://www.power-systems.com/locker/usage/dbdf53e2-0818-4984-bf1f-b4332ca9a653.pdf - http://www.power-systems.com/locker/usage/dbdf53e2-0818-4984 -bf1f-b4332ca9a653.pdf

Kearney's tips make the event sound like much more fun than it has ever been for me.  I have always been anxious to start the sheaf just to get some rest prior to the WOB or caber. As long as I go to the port-a-pod prior to a 30+ attempt, I am OK.  Too much hydration hinders that "violent" explosion for me.

Chris "Cagles for a Strong Core" Cook

M-BAAB wrote: K-man- gotta tell ya - great coaching tips- sheaf has always been my weakest event-think I finally got this thing down w/ the info from your post-went out last week and redid the whole thing from the beginning- printed out your post and followed it 1,2,3- result- matched my PR easily this weekend and feel there's lots more !!! See, when you get old like me you can start coaching.......thanks.

My pleasure brother, and great work. When you get really aggressive with the bag, don't hesitate to apply a little touch of tape adherent spray (or whatever) to those tines. Believe me, feeling like the bag is not going to slip is far more important than that baloney about needing real slick tines.

Also, personal preference for me, but I prefer to move back on the bag a bit before I stick it. Getting it right on the corner edge creates too much slop and flop for me, and increases the chances of the bag hinging down on the tines.

Kearney,

Just so you know, my first games of the year had a PR due to the tips. Thanks again,

Tedd

Kearney...

you've brought me back and your perfect description of the movement reminded me that the stand really works...no more spin for me. I was throwing both in practice to see which went higher - and when I finally remembered to keep the arms straight and the nose in the left shoulder and stay on the right side - the bag was flying high. Thanks - see you this summer...

you're a true sportsmen and a fine gentleman...

I'm gonna kick yur ass at Fair Hill - you only made it worse when you called me pathetically, embarressingly weak. Just because I can't spell "embarressingly" and really am pathetically weak doesn't mean a thing...

Will,

Since you are going back to the standing sheaf, i shall retire the spinning wob.  Only stands for me from here on out.  Your brother will be proud.

will barron wrote: you're a true sportsmen and a fine gentleman... I'm gonna kick yur ass at Fair Hill - you only made it worse when you called me pathetically, embarressingly weak. Just because I can't spell "embarressingly" and really am pathetically weak doesn't mean a thing...

All I'll say is that the ass kicking won't be as easy as it has been over the last couple of years!  Bring your B game and your ass is grass, Bring your A game and I'm probably screwed.   hehe  maybe.

Myles...buddy..don't kid yourself. I'm weak - (425 squat 285 clean) 1 rep max. And yet, I beat most everyone in the 97 lb Portland Stone - a brute strength event the last 2 yrs in a row...and yes I'm proud!

you just gotta get the raging monster awoken inside and as someone who sniffs ammonia - I think you know what I'm talkin' 'bout

by the way - sorry again for almost killing you that one time - we both owe Craig for that! see you this summer