Women Vs Men & Hammer Weights

Kilted Canuck wrote: ... Your question about where did they come up with 16lbs and 12lbs for the women's hammers is a good question. If you follow the history of women throwing in this sport, whatever was considered the men's light in any event, was then used as the women's heavy implements. I would assume that when women started throwing there was not many of us and therefore, at many of the games we would at least have the heavy to throw since the men's light implements would always be available....

Your post makes sense which also leads to the discrepancies between men and women's hammer results as the men's light implement is not 1/2 the weight of the heavy implement (thank goodness as few games would have field size for men to throw a 11# hammer!)

It also can be a weak argument to keep the women's hammer weights were they are as it could be state that "it is "tradition" for women to throw half the weight of men" 

Kilted Canuck wrote: .... As how they got the 12lbs, is strange because if it where to follow the men's hammers it would be 6lbs lighter difference so therefore you would think it would be 10lbs, since the mens are 16 & 22lbs. ....

my guess on why 12#:  22/16 = 1.375  and 16/X = 1.375  which implies X=11.636363.  Round up and you have 12.

However, if the minimum weights was switched to 11 and 8, half the men's weights, the ratio of heavy to light hammer is preserved exactly at 1.375.

Kilted Canuck wrote: .... In a majority of games for the Sheaf the standard is 20lbs men, 10lbs women and 16lbs for Master men, there are a few exceptions where the women's is heavier.

Organizations with Women sheafs at 12#

• NASGA
• Mid-Atlantic Scottish Athletics' rules - http://www.heavyevents.com/rules/index.php
• Scottish American Athletic Association - http://www.saaa-net.org/rules/rules_2003.PDF

Organisations with 10# Women Sheafs or no limit given:

• RMSA
• USAD 
• Scottish Heavy Athletics - does not give a weight for women sheafs
  

I do agree with you that the 10# bag is becoming the standard bag and hopefully the rules will change to reflect this trend. 

Curious question: Have you heard any masters women asking for a lighter bag?

Kilted Canuck wrote: ...  For many years women had asked me why when we are of Masters age, why our weights dont decrease like the mens do... well for the first time ever.. this year at the WMC.. the women in th 50+ division threw a 20lb heavy WFD and 20lb WOB.   Again thank you for bringing up a subject I have pondered since I started throwing & running games.  Karyn Dallimore

I am happy to see the development of a lighter throwing weight for Masters-Women.  I think it is a great move for this sport.  However, I believe it needs to be standardized and made consistent with other areas of the sport.  I believe it needs to be:

• Applied to 40 and over
• The weight needs to be bumped up by 1 pound.

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the reason why I believe the weight needs to be raised from 20 to 21 pounds:

The 20 pound weight is probably from track and field rather than paying respect to Scottish heritage/tradition of using stone weights. Also, the 20# weight does not remotely make logical sense. 

The topic of 20# weight for senior masters was brought up once in a General Forum Tread titled Weights for Older Throwers.  http://www.nasgaweb.com/forums/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=569 3.   

Expressing the weights in stones easily shows the illogical of a 20# weight for women (and senior masters) and I hope it changes before it gets set in stone (no pun intended).

• 4/2 stones for Men's heavy/light weights (2 to 1 ratio between heavy to light)
• 2/1 Stone for Women's heavy/light weights (2 to 1 ratio between heavy to light)
• 3/2 Stones for Masters men heavy/light weights (1.5 to 1 ratio between heavy to light)

What makes more sense:

• 1.5/1 stones or 21/14 pounds for Women's masters heavy/light weights

Or

• 1.4285714285714285714285714285714/1 stones or 20/14 pounds for women masters heavy/light weights

Clearly a 1.5 to 1 ratio is more consistent than a 1.42857 to 1 ratio.

but then again, what do I know and what is one pound?  One pound is the difference between keeping the traditions embedded in our sport and track and field event.  Something that we all hold near and dear.

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Squeaky wheels get oiled, so it is up to the women throwers to call for changes that affect them by talking to and lobbying the AD's of the games they go to.  

As a maker of Highland Games equipment, thought I would chime in on this.  The reason I started making a 20# Weight is that the Capital District Games in New York started a 60 years + Super Master's Class to attract some of the top athletes from the past, Jim Pauli, Ed McComas, Bill Bailey etc.  Someone decided to use a 20# for LWFD and a 35# for HWFD and WFH. Being over 60 myself this sounded like a great idea.  I have been trying to promote this class ever since by making the 20# and 35# weights. It would be no problem to bump it up to 21#.  My wife, Pat Shema competes in the Women's Master's Class. She is also over 60.  She started bugging me as to why the Women's Masters throw the same weight equipment as the Women's Class and how they came up with the weights of the Women's Class equipment.  As a start to try an encourage more Women to join in the fun competing, we made some changes at the Games where I am the AD.  We have a Women's Junior Class, up to 18 yrs, and a Women's Master's Class, 40 yrs +.  These classes both use: the 20# for LWFD and WFH. We have found in training new Women that the 28# is just too intimidating in the WFH unless they have a strong background in track and field or weight training.  We got Bill Scruggs to agree to using the 20# at the 2008 MWC for a 50+ Class. If we are going to encourage more Women to compete I agree we should adjust the weights of the equipment as suggested here in these postings.  The crowd really enjoys seeing the Women compete at my games.